Defense drive or Prey drive - Page 13

Is anyone going to answer Sunshine's question?

So my answer wasn't definitive enough??? LOL

Preston, I do not want you to stop posting, I want you to use paragraphs.

I would have to see the dogs you are talking about. I have had some very very serious dogs in my lifetime, and while it would be ok to go through that again if I was going to start breeding again, I am good without the hassles.

One of the interesting things with dogs that seem to not have fear, is that they do not show it AS MUCH as other dogs. It is there, and it is why they will go forward with aggression. To say that a dog has no fear is silly, gangster or not. Of course the whole use of the word gangster is a bad choice, cause everyone of those people show fear aggression. Why do they pack up??? Ever come across one by himself??? Runs like a little kid gonna tell his daddy. Bad choice, naughty Preston. LOL

If Preston does not understand by now he never will...........

Naw..Preston is an educated idiot who has no clue about dogs.  I have never know a human being who had no fear..Some have lower levels and takes more to stimulate them but everyone has fear. Humans can reason past fear while dogs cannot do so, you can condition and help them but you cannot reason with a dog and make him not fear.

Quote:  Here's a thought for your consideration.

Suppose both points of view are correct. Example..if Preston's backround is in clinical psychology or what ever he said it was..maybe his definition of fearless comes from the perspective of someone who is used to reading people alot , from looking in their eyes and their expressions and gaining experience in that respect and add to that the results seen. A mental definition of fearless which would be radically different from a physical /medical of definintion fear even though there is a commonality. Some people use the words fearless and full of courage interchangably. Neither is wrong. Perhaps both are right.

Here is a thought for your consideration.

Either words have a definition or they do not. Try Websters. Also, trust me, as I could care less, dogs show fear.

Preston quote: First of all there are no scientific studies concluding that all GSDs or GSDs as a breed experience fear, or for that matter all dogs or all animals.

there is alots of studies that conclude that all animals (on planet earth) can and do experience fear. I'm not going to post them on this board because many of these studies are very large and take up to much space. but if anyone wants them (preston) i can send them to you by e-mail just email me tpd2654@yahoo.com. some are from Penn state and i also know some people from cornell that have some good stuff on stresses and fear.

there is also lots of studies that conclude all forms of aggression are fear based. if anyone wants that info let me know. (preston)

i will warn anyone that is interested in this info that it can be hard reading do to the fact it's so dry.

unless your gsd is not a animal or not from this planet then it does experience fear. i will go even farther and say they experiences fear on a day to day basis.

my experience of you (preston) is very cut and dry. you love and think the world of your gsds so much that you are blind to the facts.  the facts are  that your gsds and everyone elses are just like every other animal on this planet and do experience fear. it's natural, it's survival, it's ok that they do experience fear or else we would not have dogs. i don't believe you were ever very successful at training dogs, and maybe have never titled a dog from puppy through sch3 ( at least not with any great success) i get this from your post (i could be wrong but probly not) I'm not knocking you if you haven't trained a dog. it's tough and quiet frankly some people can't do it. i think this is why you lean more twards the show ring with dogs. the training in the ring does not demand complex behaviour but still is very work demanding (conditioning/running). now you have aquirred a very detailed eye for structure, but regardless of how detailed your eye is you cannot glance into the eye of a dog and tell his temperment and that he has no fear.

to me you can only tell a dogs true temperment by training the dog and testing the dog (trials). the true temperment of a dog cannot be judged in one moment or one day. it should be judged on a compilation of many days and many years of training. i base this on the fact that ever time i work my dog i learn something new about my dog and our relationship.

so in short preston, i don't believe you have a clue about correct temperment. if i have a question about structure you would be my man, but not temperment or workablity.

Anyone intrested in studies in emotion or cognition from a biological perspective (rather than psychological) should read some of the works of neuroscientist Joseph LeDoux, who presents his research in a way that is not at all hard reading, or "dry".

All animals have to be able to detect and respond to danger, regardless of the kind of cognitive architecture they have. This is as true of bees and worms and snails, as it is of fish, frogs, birds, rats, and people. Fear conditioning, by the way, occurs in all animals.  ~Joseph LeDoux