German Guarantee - Page 1

I would also like to know if there are guarantees when one purchases a puppy or dog from a breeder in Germany.

No

Not only do you not get a guarentee, you might not get a receipt. That guarentee thing is an Americanism. Shows the "smart" consumer he is "protected". When you have a guarentee, you are getting the best from the best. (Big Eye Wink).

Hello All: Does Germany now have a forced Guarantee (LAW) for all German Shepherd puppies sold. A friend mentioned to me all GSD puppies sold in Germany must be fully Guaranteed for HD, ED, teeth ect...... I have heard this is a recent implementation. I posted this in the woring spot....sorry. Thank you, Eric LUKE

Hello All: Does Germany now have a forced Guarantee (LAW) for all German Shepherd puppies sold. A friend mentioned to me all GSD puppies sold in Germany must be fully Guaranteed for HD, ED, teeth ect...... I have heard this is a recent implementation. I posted this in the woring spot....sorry. Thank you, Eric LUKE

Hi Eric you are misinformed. Dogs fall under a law that applies to any other used "items" sold, called the Gewährleistungsgesetz, which actually covers and is the same for all EU countries, and has been in effect for several years now. However, it is considered that pups and dogs are sold as is, unless specified differently. Thus no real guarantee applies. Things like HD are considered to be outside the sellers control once it has left the sellers care and are not considered to be part of this guarantee. If the buyer wants to be smart and wants to name specifics, the seller will simply not sell you a dog/pup under such conditions. Also this law is very hard to reinforce within Germany and more so from overseas. Exception is if a seller blantantly misrepresents the pup/dog, ie sells a pup/dog with a known/pre-existing problem but "forgets" to mention it - then you have a clear cut case. Anything beyond that, little chance of success in court. Some breeders may say they will offer a replacement, but when the time comes that may have slipped far far back in their memory. In summary, for the most part no guarantee from German breeders/sellers. Miller Oak, for a guarantee you need to go with an importer who caters to the US needs, and who carefully preselects pups/dogs, then offers guarantees after having done some weeding out of the bad seeds already, and has a proven track record. Guarantees are usually given for pups, and any realistic guarantee covers only the basics up to a year, maybe two. Anything beyond that is most likely just marketing hype that most likely will not be upheld anyways, or the guarantee has enough loopholes built in so that you are still not going to get satisfaction. Adults are usually sold as is/as described and are usually limited to confirming proper health status via a vet check through the new owner within 2-3 days upon arrival.

Guarantee is a funny thing... If something goes wrong with the puppy and it turns out to be not of the breeding value, a customer expects his money back or a new puppy from the breeder... Now let me ask you this: what if the puppy turns out to be better than anyone could ever expect and becomes the next world champion? Will the customer pay the difference to the breeder???? Buying a puppy is like buying a lottery ticket - you may win or not. I like it the German way better. But here in the US people want guarantees - cannot live without them.

Is a breeder a bad breeder if they don't do guarantees? I can understand to the breeders feelings because if i were to start breeding and sold a pup to a family who allowed their puppy become so obesely fat that when they took the dog to the vets to get their hips/elbows done that the results came back very bad... I dont think it should be the sellers fault for the hip/elbow problem since the dog owners allowed their dog to become so fat. Im sure that other problems can causes hip/elbow problems without it being from genetics. Should it be the breeders responsiblity for the health/temperament after the puppy is in full custody to the buyers?

When you have a baby, do you get a guarentee from the hospital, that it will be perfect? Do you get to take it back if it is not to your satisfaction and get another one, or your money back? This guarantee thing in America is a by product of one thing: overinflated prices for puppies/dogs. As a breeder, I have to offer a guarantee, because everyone else supplies that "toilet paper" with the dogs they sell. If a person is honorable and will do the right thing, you don't need a guarantee. If a person is dishonest, they won't stand behind the guarantee, anyway. That is why I call it "toilet paper". Americans have become so litigious oriented, they expect everything in life to come with a guarentee. Some consumers are naive enough to believe that "so and so" offers perfect puppies because they offer a guarantee and everyone else is a Back Yard Breeder. This BYB term has become a marketing tool that besmirches others to ensure consumers come to them and get their "guaranteed" puppies with a warranty(for a lot of money). I saw recently on the internet prices ranging from $4500-$8000 for puppies sired by VA1 Larus Von Batu, at 8 weeks of age. Outragously wrong!! Now of course you get a guarentee with that. A guarentee for what?!?!? It is still a dog. It does not have mystical powers. It probably won't be a VA or Sieger, Just a good looking, health German Shepherd. In Germany the same dog would sell for maybe $1100-$1300, depending on the Euro at the time of the purchase. When people pay that type of money, they expect SOMETHING, not just a dog, thus the guarantee, and other "hype" that surrounds sales. Lately I have heard one kennel's name that is at the forefront now, in America for great German Shepherds. Everyone is encouraged to go there for the premier German Shepherds. At best, the quality of the dog will go down as they try to supply enough dogs the the publicity demand put on them as they rake in the money. At worse, people will pay outrageous prices for a mere dog, that is just not worth the money. I agree with breeding to achieve the best. I do that also. I travel to Germany in my efforts to do so. But trust me these high prices are driving this idiotic guarantee thing and vice versa. Do away with the guarantee and get a price reduction of 300-400% and still get a genetically healthy/winning dog at a reasonably price sounds like a deal to me. The breeder should replace the dog if it is defective at the time of sale, anyway. You don't need "toilet paper" for that. The consumer has let this guarantee "genie" out of the bottle, and he is going to pay for it for many years to come. Stephen

Good posts, SGBH. I'd like to add that another "catch 22" is the requirement that the "defective" dog needs to be returned to the breeder prior to any restitution being made. That smacks of pet shop tactics. I know of breeders who have also informed the unhappy owners of the not-so-perfect doggies that they will have to put them down when they send them back, no room at the inn. Of course, the owners opted to keep the dog and negate the guarantee. I don't know or want to know many people who would return any dog knowing it was going to get the needle. One could guarantee anything from a Va at the sieger to a dog that could give birth to purple puppies if they needed to return the dog prior to getting a replacement/refund. You are spot on, a guarantee is only as good as the people involved. When I was breeding (another working breed) I was told I HAD to guarantee/warrantee my puppies, so I did. However, I did have a close friend who sold all in every litter for the same reasonable price, no pet, no breeding classifications and NO guarantees. I don't think that was a bad thing to do.