Forum Bullies - Page 12

 The value of any forum calling itself a resource for a given breed is drastically reduced when posts related to abuse/neglect of dogs, crimes, unethical breeders, people stealing dogs, cheating, lying etc. are not allowed to stay. Oli made it clear some time ago that he had changed his policy on deletions and would no longer delete such material. And he has not often deleted material of late. It is also the reason he instituted the abuse button, but unfortunately, all too often those getting called to task are the ones who complain and they will try hard to get a thread deleted when it should stay.
It does not matter so much if a thread is deleted. What was written here is retained by those who come here. There are many here who have been here for years. It is only the newbies who end up not knowing what really went on, and who sometimes pay the price for that lack of opportunity to know. For example, we have seen people come here in the past wondering why they got screwed by some unethical breeder when, in fact, most of us knew the reputation of the breeder involved. The few people who want to defend those who do the things I mention above end up risking their own reputations. Continuing to support someone who has committed illegal or unethical actions is ludicrous. It is one thing to make accusations that are false, or cannot be verified, or to make a decision over a single incident. It is quite another to ignore repeated unethical behavior. But, more often than not, when people do ignore behavior they know to be unethical, they do so because they think somehow, in someway they can benefit (such as buying a dog they want from the person, breeding etc.,). That is not the case in a few instances where the reasons for defending such people is simply unknown and makes no sense.

 Continued from above:

What gets deleted is that which people (who are all too often unethical themselves) cry and fuss about to Oli. Fortunately, he deletes few threads now that concern unethical breeders. Censorship of such threads makes a folly of this database. In the past, the censorship was not close to being even handed and those doing it were often either completely ignorant of what really went on or were actually people who were part of the problem. Unfortunately, Oli cannot know who is and who is not a stand up person.
There are people here who will take others to task who are not ethical in their breeding, dealings with people or who lie and exaggerate. Worse yet are those who come here only to ask for some opinion about a dog, knowing full well the dog should not be bred, and hoping to get absolution for the breeding with responses from people who know no better.

Most people have no guts and prefer to let others do all the work. Some people simply don't care and think that if someone gets screwed it is ok and their own fault. Some want to benefit by the situation so they stay on the fence and wait until the dust settles. So the cesspool continues to fill with dirty and unethical issues and behaviors by some involved in the breed. It can never be better or different if all people who say they care about the breed do not do all they can to expose those who hurt it.
People respond naturally to the ones who protest the most and the loudest. Often, these are the same gutless wonders who cannot stand and sign a petition about piss poor bite work or other issues that affect our breed. Those who have nothing to hide tell it like it is. Some don't appreciate that. Those who don't want attention just stay away and post nothing controversial. But the people who know the breed and especially those who have been here a long time, lurking or not, know what is going on. Again, too often, it is the uninitiated who do not have a clue and who so often get hurt and caught up in all the lies and deceptions.

 Continued from above:

I find it disturbing that some of the anti-semitic, absolute nonsense discussions that have gone on here stood for months and were never deleted. It is ok apparently to say someone from the Middle East stinks, but such a comment won't be deleted because too few will report it.

I have said before - either delete everything or let discerning adults make their own decisions as to what is and is not valid information. That is, in the end, how it should be in all parts of life.

My last words Hodie, I agree completely with what you say. It is beyond me why some abusive threads have persisted despite being reported, and why others which are useful public information about e.g. unethical breeders are taken off the forum.

Hi Sugarplum,

Let me only say that sometimes we do jump to conclusions about who is and is not a troll. It appears that this is the case in this situation and some have assumed you were a troll when you are not. It is an unfortunate result of seeing so many who come posting who really ARE trolls, who join at the moment of some thread just to join in and supposedly be representing someone unrelated to some posting.

I accept you for who you are. And I accept too that you may not agree with me now or ever, with my take on things, and that too is fine. My suggestion to you is for you to continue to post, not remain in the shadows. And when there REALLY are abusive posts as I mentioned above, those are the ones I personally feel compelled to answer. I welcome others speaking out too. Yes, the bad news is that this action bumps them up. But I cannot live with people thinking all Americans feel as do some posters who, for example, blame the ills of the world on a group. 

Bee Tree,
                   were you referring to that, I am inocent I tell you, what do you
think I am an idiot?

Jon Luc, I admit you have me baffled, the right words describing you escape me, but you rest easy because "idiot" is not one of them.

Sugarplum,

I understand completely about the desire to just give up or to think that things are sometimes not worth it. Sometimes I feel that way too, especially because I am not feeling well for some time now. But we all must speak out, or all is lost. Take a look, for example, at the thread on "Goodbye" and the thread on "there are just way too many". I had to be hit in the head with a shovel to recall who this person was, but I do recall now and I must say it is a good example of why it is important for all of us, you included, to speak out. There are many things on which I am sure you will agree on.....the general group here is a good and caring group and it must stay strong. I hope that you will post often, and I am not expecting you to be or say anything other than what you want to be or say.....Just be you.