Breed 'Improvements' - Page 1

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by patrishap on 05 December 2004 - 22:12


by patrishap on 05 December 2004 - 22:12

Topic to do with weak ears, and glueing those of young animals to rectify, received 26 responses. Noteworthy feature to me was fact that, but for one, no-one questioned as to whether this was really the 'ethical thing' to do, or whether this was not harmful to Breed as a whole. To lesser extent, the same applies to adding agents to food in order to improve colour. And, to a greater degree, assistance given to animals to overcome reluctance to breed, or to subsequently give birth. Earlier topic relating to torsion or bloat also made much of excessive(?) care applied where particular bloodlines are concerned to prevent them from becoming victim thereto, rather than perhaps removing such animals from gene-pool altogether. I've also heard of various surgical interventions to improve looks or to rectify more serious genetic defects in pups - and then onsold to others? I have serious reservations in respect of such manipulation, and like to know if there are others who feel the same, if not of other instances of artificial interference.

by patrishap on 05 December 2004 - 23:12

Cheers Saoa, I made that point to Sunny too. She said that many US animals had weak ears. Well, if you happen to have champion studs producing endless offspring, and whose weak ears were artificially 'enhanced' as a pup, then you're only perpetuating the whole problem - same with any other artificial manipulation. Take colouring agents: buyer is enthused by pups colour, or everybody similarly impressed by that of a champion stud, and then you find that offspring or pup bought doesn't quite .... live up to like expectations! I've yet to be convinced, for various reasons, that torsion can be materially blamed on bloodlines but, if so, shouldn't these be promptly excluded from breeding? Regards.

Keith Grossman

by Keith Grossman on 05 December 2004 - 23:12

Ahoy Peter! (just trying to be unique :p ) While I agree that one should give careful consideration to using a dog with a known ear fault in a breeding program and I also view color "enhancements" as somewhat dubious, I do not see the "reluctance to breed" scenario in quite the same way. I think circumstances should be taken into consideration. I have what I would say is a fairly dominant female who will flag and stand for my male. Unfortunately, my male, a typically large, masculine Jeck grandson, was neutered several years ago because I never thought he showed much drive so , even if I thought that my male was the best choice to mate with my female (which is rarely the case), it was out of the question. Keep in mind, now, that she is a maiden bitch and is in heat so she's already acting a little weird then take her to the vet's every other day for progesterone testing. Once the expected LH surge occurs, take a week off of work, pack her up and drive several hundred miles into totally foreign surroundings and possibly with a different climate and get a room in a hotel. Take her once or twice to the local vet for vaginal smears just so you'll know when she's ready. Finally, drive some more to the stud dogs location, introduce her to a dog she's never seen before whose only interest is climbing on top of her. If she reacts by making it clear that her only intention with this dog is to eat him, is she really being unreasonable? I don't know that I would call this "reluctance to breed" so much as reluctance to breed with that dog, a V1 rated male whom I had chosen after several months of pedigree research. Somehow, I can't quite come to the conclusion that it would be good for the breed to let them choose their own partners. Regards, Keith

by patrishap on 06 December 2004 - 01:12

Ahoy Indeed Keith, (Blue Water there?) Have bitch in heat now - similar rigamarole. No, really didn't have that situation (natural one?) really in mind: more the case where animal has innate lack of inclinations - ie inherited. I must be honest here: I haven't seen that much thereof myself, but heard of quite a few obviously true instances. Besides, I very much get impression you are much an ethical Breeder! (Damned hard at times not to sound patronising!) I also threw it in there as part of larger picture. What Breed do you know from way up North with stunning, light blue eyes. Be well, P.

by sunshine on 06 December 2004 - 02:12

Cheers Peter! Too much work right now on hand. Would have alot to say on color enhancement. Take care of yourself Crocodile Dundee! Sunny

by patrishap on 06 December 2004 - 02:12

Hi Sunny, I've got to go shortly as well. Hope you're good.LOL

by sunshine on 06 December 2004 - 04:12

Check out my boy under No Comment and Herding under Stud Dogs. Tell me honestly from down under how you think he might do in New Zealand. LOL Sunny

by elizabeth on 06 December 2004 - 06:12

"Earlier topic relating to torsion or bloat also made much of excessive(?) care applied where particular bloodlines are concerned to prevent them from becoming victim thereto, rather than perhaps removing such animals from gene-pool altogether." I have yet to find any vet that I have spoken to commit to any explanation of "bloat" genetic or environmental other than more likely to happen in "deep" chested breeds. The one thing about bloat in dogs is kinda like Kidney stones in people, the one thing they know is that it can happen to anyone!

GSD4dogs

by GSD4dogs on 06 December 2004 - 07:12

Very interesting topic. I personally think that if ears don't go up on their own, so be it. Frankly, if they are going to go up, they will go up on their own. As far as breeding stock goes, we need to look at all major inherited health issues, not just one or two major ones. Even with HD, many of us do a lot with diet and environment. A very renowned orthopedic surgeon recently stated that if a dog is genetically pre-disposed toward HD, it might be adverted with diet and environment but that animal will still pass HD along. As far as color goes, I thought color didn't matter excepted for washed out color or white. There is no one perfect dog but we need to look at the two animals that we are breeding and take an the educated guess as to the quality of the offspring. The hard part is that we need to be honest with ourselves when we ask the question, "Is there value to the breed in breeding this animal?"





 


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