OFA and BARF - Page 1

Pedigree Database

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

by Duke on 16 November 2004 - 03:11

Can we discuss the results of feeding dogs BARF diets and and their effects on OFA results.

vomlandholz

by vomlandholz on 16 November 2004 - 05:11

Well mine were on kibble until about 5 months when they both came down with pano (brother and sister I kept). Switched to BARF, no more pano. Just did OFA prelims at 10 months. One is fair, other good.

Shaila

by Shaila on 16 November 2004 - 06:11

since i switched to a combination of BARF and Natural kibble along with a Vitamin C protocol during pregnancy and daily after birth I have had NO pups come up with hip or elbow problems. three litters, 8, 8, 7 so far all clear. Current litter is on the same protocol. I expect same results. This is of course provided that the owners of the puppies follow diet/vitamin protocol and don't allow for obesity, over exercise, injury...

GSD4dogs

by GSD4dogs on 16 November 2004 - 09:11

I have a 3 year old Jaguar von Mauspitz son that I raise on the barf diet and vitamin C from 7 weeks on. Both his hips are very bad. He does well with a good diet and exercise program (still on raw) and no signs of pain. diet and exercise can mask bad hips but if the genes are bad they are bad! The vitamine C studies everyone points to was only one litter. Further studies show that it doesn't prevent dysplasia and when they followed dysplastic dogs on vitamine C it was noted that the hips continued to degenerate as badly as those not on C but the dogs on vitamine C seemed to show less syptoms even though the x-rays show continued degeneration.

GSDfan

by GSDfan on 16 November 2004 - 14:11

On another thread someone had mentioned Purina or Iams (one of the big names) doing research on HD and linked high protein/fat and growing fast with HD. Which brought about the creation of the large breed puppy formulas (with less fat and protein). I always wondered how if that theory and research is valid then how can the BARF diet (extreemly high in protein and fat) be good for puppies. Can someone please comment on this apparent contradiction.

Dawn G. Bonome

by Dawn G. Bonome on 16 November 2004 - 14:11

I know that alot of people will disagree with me, but when you buy a puppy, it is a crap shoot. Hip and elbow dysplasia is out in all lines! NO one knows how many generations back. I have friends who have Shepherds and all they fed was kibble with Vitamin C added and the hips were fine. I have heard people feed raw and the animals hips are not good. Some people feed half raw in the AM and kibble in the PM and the dogs' hips and elbows are fine. You never know when it will show up. Dawn Bonome

by gsddebby on 16 November 2004 - 15:11

Barf/Raw feeding is a different kind of protien and fat and that is not the only thing they get. ie: vegetables, fruit, eggs, and herbs, etc. Puppies grow slower and hence the reduced symptoms of pano. The slower growth also helps in the formation of the joints themselves. By 1 yr they are usually the same size as pups who were feed a kibble diet and were much bigger in their younger months.

Shaila

by Shaila on 16 November 2004 - 19:11

It's not just what you feed, but it's also how you feed, how often you feed, how much you feed, the quality of your feed, the quality of your vitamins etc. Let's face it, not all dog foods are created equal, just like all dogs are not created equal, vitamins are not created equal. you cut corners, expect them to show up sooner or later. There is no way to prevent CHD 100% of the time, because of many enviormental factors on top of a genetic crap shoot. But what you CAN do is research, spend $ on the best dog food you can buy and the highest soluble vitamins and start there. The problem with a lot of people who buy a puppy and then 'switch' to a barf or combination barf diet is this... you have NO idea what the breeder fed the bitch! did she get good food on a daily basis? did she get good vitamins on a daily basis? in order for it to be effective, as per the studies show what i've seen IRL shows that it ALL starts with the bitch. she feeds them while they're in her belly, what you feed her will come out in the puppies! not really rocket science, but some people don't figure that into it, and you should. I too have bought puppies, switched over as soon as i got them and no big surprise... horrible hips. what can you do? hope they'll replace the puppy? i'm still waiting. There have been multiple scientific studies about feeding and vitamins as well as countless breeders that actually apply it to their feeding regimen on a daily basis. these are the results - real life results that are helpful. Breeders that feed a HIGH quality diet and also supplement with Vit-C on a DAILY basis, who also don't allow their breeding stock / puppies to become overweight or over exercised and put this into their puppy contracts definately HAVE A MUCH LOWER RATE OF CHD than the average breeder. The biggest part in this is that the new owners of the puppies are EDUCATED and are offered a choice... this is what the puppy is eating, if you want a guarantee on your puppy this is what you should feed him/her. you need to keep receipts in case something does happen to prove that you have indeed been feeding the dog properly (because anyone can lie) if you do have a problem we will replace your puppy. not very hard, but it gets them thinking... that is the key. ignorance is bliss right? i chose to educate my puppy buyers and make them choose. all of mine have (so far) to the health of their dogs. Just food for thought. I've been a Vet Tech for over 13 years and i've seen first hand what comes into Vet Clinics, OVER 90% of American Pet animals are clinically OBESE, not overweight, not chubby, but OBESE to MORBIDLY OBESE. It's pathetic. Why is this though? LACK OF EDUCATION and people like iams and purina and kalkan doing all kinds of TV advertising to sell their foods so that they spend more money advertising their shit than they can put into it! Are the Vets going to tell you your dog is fat? 90% of the time NO, why? because it'll hurt their clients fragile sensibilities and they won't come back. TOTAL BS if you ask me. Vets should be in it to help the ANIMALS not sugar coat shit for people. But hey, if they actually told you how to PREVENT 80-95% of the diseases and what not that come into their clinic... THEY'D GO BROKE. For me... the proof is in the dogs. I had 9 litters before i started the Vit-C protocol. I replaced 3 dogs out of those 9 litters for hips, since i've switched I haven't had ONE puppy with bad x-rays.

by hexe on 16 November 2004 - 23:11

Shaila wrote: "Breeders that feed a HIGH quality diet and also supplement with Vit-C on a DAILY basis, who also don't allow their breeding stock / puppies to become overweight or over exercised and put this into their puppy contracts definately HAVE A MUCH LOWER RATE OF CHD than the average breeder." Might you direct me to the studies which bear this specific assertion out? I seem to have missed the publication of those study results. Shaila also wrote: "For me... the proof is in the dogs. I had 9 litters before i started the Vit-C protocol. I replaced 3 dogs out of those 9 litters for hips, since i've switched I haven't had ONE puppy with bad x-rays." So let me see if I have the math right here: pre-vitamin C/raw diet fed litters= 9 number of pups replaced for hip abnormalities= 3 post-vitamin C/raw diet fed litters= 3 number of pups replaced for hip abnormalities= 0 I submit that you haven't yet produced a sufficient number of litters post vitamin C/raw diet feeding protocol to give any validity to the claim the it is this protocol which has prevented your last three litters from producing any hip abnormalities. Additionally, let me ask this: of the three pups you had to replace, how many individual litters were represented, and how many individual sires and dams were represented? The proof may be in the dogs, but you haven't got a significant statistical sample yet to make such a determination. BTW, I do supplement with vitamin C, but I would never credit it with being THE reason my bitch is OFA good/elbows normal(at 24 and 61 months, and x-rays taken two weeks ago indicate that there's been no changes between 61 months and 108 months, either). I don't feed raw, and neither did/does the breeder my bitch is from...and neither did the breeders of the stock behind my bitch. I've never allowed her to carry excess weight. I've always fed either Iams or Purina ProPlan/ONE. I've supplemented my dogs with glucosamine/chondroitin for the past 18 years. They're always kept physically conditioned. But all of these things can only *AID* in preserving what nature gave them in the first place: normal hip construction. For every BARF-fed litter that goes 100% OFA clear, I can counter with another which had one or more OFA flunk-outs. Yes, even litters where the dam, and her dam, and her dam before her were all BARF-fed and vitamin C supplemented. It's not magic, it's just a feeding method, and one that can be woefully inadequate in the hands of an amateur canine nutritionist. I'll stick with a good quality commercial kibble, along with whatever fresh veggies and meat my dogs harvest on their own. (Which they will do whenever they have the opportunity. ) It's worked well for me for the past 20 years or so.

GSD4dogs

by GSD4dogs on 17 November 2004 - 03:11

I attended a seminar on hip dysplasia recently by a top orthopedic vet and he had an interesting take. In his opinion, hip dysplasia is genetic but there are things you can do diet and environment wise that may prevent a dog that is genetically prone to HD, however, the dog will still pass on the bad genes even if he/she doesn't develope dysplasia. He further said that the dog that was genetically predisposed to HD would not get it even if the diet or environment were bad. Hence, if we coddle our potential breeding stock, we will never wipe out HD. Just a thought.





 


Contact information  Disclaimer  Privacy Statement  Copyright Information  Terms of Service  Cookie policy  ↑ Back to top