The New Max - Input requested - Page 1

Max is certainly becoming a 2 year old male GSD.  He has started a GSD trait that, for my life style, I need to find the best way to eliminate it.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  If the suggestion is a pro-trainer, please tell me what kind to look for, as an obedience trainer will not do the trick and that is about all I know.  Also, give me some suggestions on what to do for now, as finding a trainer may take a month or 2.

Max has shown now 3 instances of “protecting” me with a stranger.  This just started in the last month; Max will be 2 on the 16^th.  Each time that he growled and barked, I was able to quickly ‘out’ him and got him into a down and quiet.  If I am honest with myself, I was silently pleased each time, as the stranger either surprised me or made me un-comfortable.  In all instances, Max had his tail up and ears pitched forward, no hackles raised, so I do not think it was fear aggression; I think he is recognizing my un-comfortableness and was protecting his pack.

I am sure many of you are thinking “What is the problem?  This is a GSD.”  The problem is that Max took the initiative, which I cannot have.  My long term goal is that Max will be my mobility dog; as my physical limitations increase.  If you are familiar with service dogs, any sign of aggression or protection is not a good thing.

I do not live in a life style that requires a protection dog.  The thing that has always had my attention with Max is his aloofness with people.  He has always watched people, but has had no desire to interact with them.  This is what I wanted and still want.  How do I get him back here?  Is this just a 2 year old thing that, as long as I do not encourage it in any way, he will grow out of?

I made many mistakes with Baron, who has the same temperament, which I do not want to repeat.  I thought that obedience training would be enough; obviously not.  I also do not want Max to be like Rose.  I “over’ socialized her.  She loves people and never met a stranger.   She will actually walk through a store crying if I do not let people pet her.  That is ok though.

Some things that may or may not make any difference:

1. Max will soon be 2 years old.
2. Max is not fixed.
3. Max has, and continues to have, advance obedience training (maybe even do competition one day).
4. Max is showing Alpha temperament, a though he always shows me respect and leadership deference.  With the rest of the dog pack though, he is doing his best to work his way to the top.
5. The male / female hormones are certainly kicking in.  Good thing all my females are fixed.
6. Max had a clean bill of health this month; including a thyroid check.

Can others handle Max...Can they take the leash and walk him...What happens if this new handler walks up to someone else or someone walks up to them...what happens?

You say he's working and doing obedience/advanced ob...Are there other people/dogs around him at that time...How does that go...

I see things happening with dogs and their owners...One of the first things I like to do is to have someone else (new) to just take the dog for a little walk on leash...This will tell you a lot...

One of the things you must do is to definitely figure out what sets this reaction off and what calms him down or how does he go back to normal...

It's true that this is the age where German Shepherds begin to mature...both physically and sexually...

~Bob~

This is why matching the puppy with future plans of owner is so important. I tell people if you don't want a dog to herd your little kids, don't get a boarder collie. If you don't want a protective dog, don't get an aloof puppy. It makes for less conflict if the dog's genetic temperament matches the job, rather than trying to change the dog's innate makeup to fit the job profile. Hope this makes sense to you. He sounds like a perfect gsd to me. He's what 90 percent of the people I talk to have a gsd for.

You said it yourself fawnda...the person either made you uncomfortable or surprised you....

Now you want Max to act with behavior, "unbecoming of a German Shepherd"...any German Shepherd worth  half a grain of salt, has that natural protective instinct...believe me, your  dog is a better judge of character than you or I.

    Just be careful of what you wish for

My ASL is the same way. I'm her 8th owner mainly because the other 7 didn't want her to do that. I thought it was a great reason to take her and she will be here as long as she lives. She been handled by pro handlers, by vets, techs, helpers, strangers, judges etc.. My neighbors can take her for a walk. Never any problems. However I pity the person who ever thinks they can do me any harm when she is anywhere nearby. I love it!!!

Personally, I love that behavior also;  for service work though you need to "teach" him to have an on/off command.  Install an on and off switch as to when you say it's OK or good geblout he shuts on or off.  Which ever you ask of him and timing is everything which I am sure you are aware of.  I would teach this right now, and get a professional to help you, someone familiar with teaching protection training,  not just a club sch member or helper.  Believe me they know when to react, but react by a bark and hold, hopefully not a bite in your case.  Those strangers that approached you were probably perp's.  Your dogs sense and his reaction was probably appropriate for that case and time.  BUT you need that control with the on/off command.  And I would do it right now, don't wait. 

 

I teach with the bark hand signal to "bark/growl/show teeth" then  a good geblout command;  and I start just like that.  I did not do this with my last big boy (120) lbs and later when I wanted to incorporate this  which was after "HE" decided when and where, I was unable to change his behavior.  These boys can be stubborn when they choose to be and it sounds like your boy might have his mind somewhat made up as to how to handle the situation(s).  Good luck, you might ask on this forum if someone can recommend a knowledgeable trainer for this type situation and protection training, otherwise maybe look into Ivan B's video's and some others to learn how to teach this yourself.  Food for thought,  Nan

I think this is one of the main reasons GSDs are no longer used as a

majority of Guide / Seeing Eye dogs, and have rarely been first choice for

other sorts of Assistance Dogs.  Even true of females.  They have the

brains and initiative, the height and physical versatility - but they also

come with the protective streak which always made them ideal as herding

and military dogs.    People tend to think it is a 'failing' that the Guide Dog /

Service dog organisations no longer use the breed as much  - but it is more

relevant that most users, like Fawn, say they do not have need of that role

in a service dog. 

Smile.  All of your answers was what I expected.  Thank you so much.

Nans, that is the direction I will go; "install" the on switch.  Like I said, being honest with myself, I liked what he did and was very proud that he instantly disengaged when I told him to quiet and lay down.

Now, in looking for a protection trainer.....  What kind of research into the trainer should I do first?  As we all know, anyone can say they are a trainer.  Is it inapproperate to ask to see the trainer in action with other dogs?

Q Man, I do not know about another handler.  I will work on that next class.  I know when my instructor took Max to hold while I went to another room, as first Max was looking for me, but he settled down quickly and there was no barking or growling involved.

Fawn, some people may have a problem with this, but, be that as it may, if the dog is properly trained, meaning if it has been taught there ARE consequences for negative behavior, not listening when told, not paying attention, etc, the dog will do what it has been trained to do so that it can avoid the corrections, FIRST, then get the reward, thats it, thats the whole key to training a dog to listen.

When a dog understands clearly that there are no options when its told to do something because when it tried to exercise those options, life was not so good, when the dog did exactly what it was told to do and got rewarded for it and life was really good, guess which way the dog will go towards...

Training a dog is not some great secret, its all about showing it what you want, making it do it several thousand times until it becomes second nature and teaching it that there are serious consequences for not complying, end of.

Its when we fail to supply the negatives and we ignore behavior we dont want to see and wait until the dog offers us something we like and then feed it until it explodes that we screw up.

Definitely go to watch trainers work dogs;  even get names of dogs they have finished with training and check with those people.  You are in a specialized field with service work however protection is protection.  Just find someone that can teach and work with you that treats your dog well.  Values him like you do and can communicate with you.  I am sure there will be someone that will step up;  ask Yellow Rose;  Kim Raul, and others in the Texas area or wherever you are located.  Good luck  Nan