how long before all workingline GSD all have the same names in the pedigree - Page 2

Pedigree Database

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

by Pirschgang on 06 July 2022 - 17:07

It also has to do with the fact that puppies from podium dogs sell better than puppies from non-podium dogs. Just the reality, for better or worse.

by GSCat on 06 July 2022 - 23:07

There are a lot of unadvertised puppies that don't have podium fathers that are sold for work. Those in the relevant industries go to specific kennels for them and still pay a pretty penny, especially for a trained dog, but the money is well spent for very high quality working dogs/puppies.

Example, police departments that need a trained dog now or very near future and send handler to the kennel for training with the dog so they learn to be a team. The dog is already trained and ready for certification with the handler as a team. A kennel like this has to have healthy, good quality dogs, great training, and stand behind both the dogs and training, or it will very quickly go out of business from both lack of purchases (word of mouth among departments) and lawsuits when things go wrong on the street.

Some of these kennels get their dogs sport titled, some only law enforcement certifications, etc.

I'd rather a police K9 have more law enforcement K9-type training and certifications than a sport title(s) in place of even one of the certifications. Work ability and execution is far more important than bragging rights of titles/pedigrees in serious situations.

Fantom76 (admin)

by Fantom76 on 07 July 2022 - 07:07

This is slightly off track, but while looking up data for a dog, a female by the name of Ulla vom Hammelsbacher Hof born
24.11.2013 , I realized that she had a litter every 6 months, bred to the same male Kalle vom Hammelsbacher Hof.
Not much diversity in that kennel.


by charlie319 on 08 July 2022 - 13:07

The fact is that a kennel may be a pursuit of an ideal, but it still has to feed and service it's dogs. What I've noticed is that there are breeders who breed "commercial" litters, with bright, shinny and glittery pedigrees to sell. Generally, pretty dogs with ball drive and a temperament that anyone can handle it... and then every year or so, do one or two litters in pursuit of the ideal. Real aggression, social and stable temperament... A throwback to,when a sticking actually involved a stick...

Today, there are few dogs that have real aggression. That his that when one comes along that "wows" the judges they push him in the ratings. Even WL are a shade of what they were.

by duke1965 on 08 July 2022 - 13:07

charlie, there is more agression in the showlines today LOLOL


by bladeedge on 08 July 2022 - 16:07

Duke depending what you have .😉

by Bronxter on 17 July 2022 - 08:07

It becomes worse every year.....and when I ask for males without Fero, Asko, Karn, Gräfental who have a SV breeding licence....people will have a hard time to give me even one name of a male.
But most people don´t see the problem....telling me we have a huge population....yes sure....
Popular sire syndrom destroys too much and I don´t get the breeders or the breeding club, who allows this....

Studs should be limited for every male.


by BlackMalinois on 18 July 2022 - 05:07

Not only GSD !!!

by Mike Delaney on 17 August 2022 - 15:08

It's so hard to find a stud that offers what a female need improvement on. Clubs are so spread out (In the US)
It's hard to get to know any dogs other than what is in your kennel or club.

My IGP 3 female? 4 times high protection. (4 trials. 1 IGP 1, 1 IGP 2, 2 IGP 3) 2 times on home field. 2 times on strange field.
Solid as a rock nerves.
High prey
Great, slow methodical tracker.
Happy obedience. High ball drive.
High food drive. Will take your fingers with the food if you don't watch it.

Calm in crate or kennel. Good off switch. No destructive behavior. No allergies. low to mid 70 pounds.

What would I fix? For sport or companion probably nothing.
For PP, K9, MWD?
Aggression. She has to be pushed pretty hard to become pissed or want to bite for real. She would not bite a neutral person.

Is that a problem? I don't know. I don't do PP, K9 or any of that. I do sport.

But I also know that is something that should be there. Maybe it is but I just didn't bring it out. Maybe not.

But if I put out a post looking for a stud with aggression closer to the surface? How many thousands of replies will I get that will be far worse than the stud I have in my kennel?

I could spend the rest of my life checking out weak nerved poorly bred dogs.

by GSCat on 18 August 2022 - 04:08

@Mike Delaney-

Look at the kennels that specialize in litters for law enforcement. Some offer stud services. Be prepared to show certifications, video, etc. for your female because some are very picky about the dogs they allow their studs to service. Kennels that cater to law enforcement will go out of business, at least as far as the law enforcement world is concerned, if the puppies they produce are weak-nerved, unhealthy, not proper drives or temperament for intended use, etc. Too much money for training and liability at stake, so LE tend to be very careful about where they source their patrol and SWAT K9. More and more departments are using other-than-German Shepherds for single purpose odor detection because of cost, availability, and public perception when they're used in schools, etc.

Sport clubs will have sport dog studs.
Conformation clubs will have conformation studs.

Not all GSD are civil or protective any more. OK for a pet, therapy dog, medical or psychiatric service dog, SAR, sport, etc. Not OK for real-world herding, protection, LE, military, etc. Different use, different temperaments.

My GSD is very civil and protective and while still a puppy used it effectively on her own initiative without any cues or commands from me when it was appropriate and necessary, before she had any of that type of training. Unless trained otherwise, in a real-world situation, GSD like this will reveal their nature without training, although maybe not effectively because some things have to be trained. Training and control are needed for safety, liability, and best effectiveness.

As you noted, important to avoid studs that are weak-nerved, unhealthy, or poorly bred because they will pass these traits on. Weak nerved and fearful dogs will do things at inappropriate times/situations, which is both useless and a liability.

Good luck.


Contact information  Disclaimer  Privacy Statement  Copyright Information  Terms of Service  Cookie policy  ↑ Back to top