Breeding (Solid Black Sire to a Black Sable Dam) - Page 1

Hi guys, this question is directed to those who have been breeding working dogs for a while. Keep in mind, color is the least important consideration when breeding(I know this) but out of curiosity, what color puppies should I expect from a current breeding (Dam is pregnant). The Sire is solid Black and the Dam is a Black Sable. I've posted the line breeding below .  Sire is mine (H.O.T Dog from 8 weeks)....Dam belongs to a very good friend (Impeccable temperament and great drives). Not an Advertisement by the way since all potential pups have been spoken for, I'm just really curious to see what they produce in pigment (color) and working drives. Any feedback is welcome. Thanks

Sire - Damole's Czar (Czar Vom Bellington)

Dam - Orca Vom Kapbusch

• 3 - 4............................................. in SG Blacky vom Neuen Lande
   
• 4,5 - 5........................................... in V Gildo vom Körbelbach
   
• 4 - 5............................................. in V Fanta vom Haus Westfalen-Stolz
   

In your case, breeding a solid black male to this black sable dam (because her father is black) can produce a litter compose from solid black pupies, black sable as well as black and tan pups. If the female had no solid black close ancestors you would only have sable and black and tan pups.

As for the temperament...you will see.

If the dam carries black, then there will be no black/tan pups.  You will get black, and dark to black sable puppies.  If the dam does not carry black, then she either carries black/tan or another sable gene.  Probably if she is indeed " black" sable, she carries black recessive (so there will be no chance of black/tan puppies).  If she carries black/tan then no puppies will be black (takes two black recessives to make black puppies) - puppies will be dark to black sables, and black/tans.  If she carries sable/sable - then all puppies will be sable.

molly

http://www.hauspharao.com/breeding/colorgenetics.html

a useful table from hauspharao

regards

Tracie

Hi elomad,

  I recently had an entire litter (11 pups) all black & reds,

I wanted to keep an all black female out of this litter, and I thought I was sealing the
deal, considering the dam has a black sister, and the sire himself is black, well,
what do you know (or for that matter>I know...) no black pups at all.

This is her first litter, so maybe one could turn up in the next & maybe not.
Your breeding looks like maybe you could have some black, cause the black
dog you linebred is in the 3rd generation.

Then again, like Molly said<Dam has to carry that black gene.

                   Paula

I had a black & red dam that carried the black gene, bred to a dark sable that had no black gene,
she had 6 black & reds and 6 sables!

Usually, if the stud dog is producing alot of offspring, you can see what colors he brings!

if the stud dog is black, the only colors he carries is black.  He has two black genes.  No black/tan or sable gene.  So in a match like this (black sire to sable dam) it depends on what the dam's recessive is - you  know three out of four of the possible color genes to be passed on to each puppy (each puppy receives one from each parent).  The black sire will give one black gene to each puppy - that's all he has to give.  The dam has a sable gene or she wouldn't be sable - if she has a black gene and gives it to any puppy that puppy will be black (black/black) - if she gives the sable gene to any puppy that puppy will be sable (sable/black).  If she doesn't have black NO puppies will be black (must be black/black to be black) - if she carries a black/tan gene some puppies will be sable (sable/black) and some will be black/tan (black/tan/black) - if she carries a second sable gene then there will be no blacks and no black/tans, all puppies will be sable (sable/black).

molly

http://www.hauspharao.com/breeding/colorgenetics.html

a useful table from hauspharao

regards

Tracie

You mean a useful table from Ehret German Shepherds.  Half of hauspharao's web content is stolen without permission, and no credit given to its original authors.

http://www.ehretgsd.com/genetics.htm#ColorBasics

My solid black female's parents were both black & red!!  There were 3 solid blacks from that litter! 

it took me 5 years to get solid blacks and about 15 years to get solid black out. be patient and plan ahead they will come.

Thank you all so much for your responses and feedback... "Molly", I think you are a class act and definitely have an in-depth knowledge about the working lines... To the member on the last post, thanks for the encouragement but I'm not overly concerned whether we get Solid Blacks or not...I was just curious what the possibilities were. As long as I get the drives, barking and temperament typical in the Blacky vom Neuen Lande bloodlines, I'll be happy... So long and enjoy your training....