The Pet Quality Pup Issue Again? - Page 7

I agree Puputz and if you can't tell the difference between a good puppy from a crapper at 8 weeks you don't need to be a breeder. You have allot more to see and learn.

Do Right    just stamped what I was saying    if you dont have money , and time enough to spend titling a dog,,,dont expect to have time to breed a dog...

If you just like to do your own training and buy a male and a female, like DO RIGHT DID ,,,from titled parents , and who have littermates that have already gone on to title ...their genetic are the very same and the same ratio of good and bad genes in all the litter........

Then breed that pair.......but do it with the time and the money to do it right

End of my trying to get the message out of my mouth

A title does not make my dog produce anything different than his littermates that have a title..

Now if you just go buy a german shepherd anywhere from just anything that has an akc registration and breed it,,,,,whooooah\

You just became a backyard breeder with no concept.....

All of a sudden, I feel that I am not such a monster (at least until spooky shows up again).

When someone purchases a pup from a breeder and pays the "breeding quality" price for said pup, would a reputable breeder return a portion of the purchase price, if said pup did not turn out to be breed worthy?  Say, three years down the road.

When you go to a breeder to purchase a pup, there will be the breeders "pick of the litter" priced pup, then the "breeding quality" priced pups, then the "pet quality" priced pups.  I assume that those are just educated guesses, and not guarantees.

I do not have the ability to ascertain from a litter of 8 week old puppies, which ones are going to "have it" and which ones are not going to "have it".  Even with the Volhard test and the other test and tips that have been discussed on this and other web sites.  So, I guess I should not breed.  But, exactly how does someone acquire that knowledge?  By going to other breeders homes and learning from them?  In my location, that would be quite a feat, unless I go to the place down the road that specializes in wolf/GSD crosses, or the BYB's in the area.  Don't we have to learn from experience.  How does someone learn to grade or rate pups in a litter.  By attending Schutzhund trials, or reading everything they can?  Is there another way?

4pack:  I really don't want to fight this week, and I actually like you (as much as I know you), but I also do not  "Aus"  well, so I will ask if these two statements from you are contradictory, or am I just dense (whcih is entirely possible).

"I agree and I never said I could pick a winner or police K-9 at 8 weeks either. Refer to my "This is why I support the limited registration on all pups." Statement."

"I agree Puputz and if you can't tell the difference between a good puppy from a crapper at 8 weeks you don't need to be a breeder. You have allot more to see and learn."

To Verconia, How is that dog I bet he is super. You have one of the greatest studs from Belgium I am excited for you. Give me a email and let me know how he is I bet he loves being in a family sitting.  Check out Worthy kennels everyone a very great dog has arrived in the North.  Marlene

I myself have a pretty good ability when picking pups. No I can't tell you if one pup or the other will make it to the WUSV but I can deffinatly tell who is better suited to work or just be a couch weight. Allot of a dogs potential is held back by the tainer or handler. Grips are evident at 8 weeks, drive, how they go out confidently or not, reactions to different stimuli is all evident at this younge age and it is raw. At this age you can regard the pup as all genetics, there havn't been many environmental or man made screw ups to change him.

In regards to how you learn...you could go see those breeders, doesn't matter what breed, just get around pups in general and watch them develope. As a kid I was a dog freak...(shhhh don't tell anyone, I never grew out of it really). Anyway I did read anything I could get my hands on about different breeds, husbandry and training. I midwifed everybody I knew who had a litter. I was one of those kids who had no life except animals. I slaved away volunteering for boarding places and rescue. Walked/trained the neighbors dogs, had dog washes, picked up poop, anything I could to get around dogs and horses.

I didn't grow up surrounded by Sch dogs but it doesn't matter. Developement is developement and dogs still read the same, especially as pups. You just change the criteria for what you are looking for. I have always looked for medium dogs, easy to train in OB not so much drive they drive you nuts. For sport you look for play drive and a good grip, military or police  would want the most environmentally sound dog in the litter, grip isn't as important.

So to really answer your question, yes you are dense...no just kidding. I say some people can do pretty well picking what pups are best for what venue. I'd love to talk to Koos Hassing about the subject myself. No their are no garentees though, thats why I like the idea of the limited reg, just in case. I will honestly say about myslef I have a better eye for potential than I am a handler, that is for sure. My beef is that many breeders don't know their own dogs potentials or how to read a pup. They may have super dogs but what does that say about them as a breeder?

...im not even gonna try...im sure ill just say somethin stupid....lol....

iluvmyGSD:  That may be the best posting on this site, I have ever read.

thanks do right

Luvmidog....I felt like you were attacking people that only have a BH, etc.  I'm sorry I don't have thousands of dollars laying around!  Sorry if I used money as an excuse....but it's the truth!  I have a female and her full sister on the way that are push button! They're showin an unbelievable amout of potential.  Where as I'll be honest, I really don't think my male is cut out for the sport, but then again he could be.  We want a foundation female to build off of and these to girls look like they just might have it(but you never know!).  So sense I'm the minority (poor) Is it not smart for me to invest everything i have into my females and put the so-so male on the back-burner?

4Pack:  I agree with your post at 16:10 100%, truer words were never spoken.   Thank you for saying it so eloquently.