Juvenile Renal Dysplasia Genetic Testing - Page 5

Bump.

Thanks for bumping Hundmutter. Not enough people want to hear this. :)

It would be a good idea if DOGenes were to publish information to support their 'guess' that more dogs are affected than they first thought.  Numbers tested vs numbers affected - so we can see the current situation.  Since DOGenes hold the patent to this test they are the only holders of this information.

I couldn't see why a senior dog in chronic kidney failure would be tested for (J) RD?  It is a very common end of life disease, and whilst I can see that dogs suffering from it may or may not have RD, I cannot see why someone would decide to test for it at that stage, since it certainly wouldn't be a breeding candidate. I find that curious, and I wonder how many senior dogs have been tested in this way.

It would be good to see them publish results.
 

Due to the fact that DOGenes does not yet have enough GSD DNA, they cannot publish actual reports. I am working on finding out the current numbers and will post them as soon as I find out.

As far as why a senior or adult dog would be tested, it is not a juvenile disease. It is actually renal dysplasia, but was given the nickname of JRD by a lay person when it came to the attention of several because of pup deaths at young ages. The majority of dogs that do finally show symptoms tend to be over the age of 5 and show the symptoms of CRF. Most CRF is NOT isolated as it is treated and those that have dogs going through this would do a great service to the breed if they would submit the DNA for testing to get true numbers. They have managed to get a bit of DNA but it is not enough.

As far as a study, the money just isn't there anymore for one. I actually ordered tests for both of my GSD's just to get their DNA and results into the database. Neither show a single symptom, but it can help the research.

Hi Jaggirl
I agree, Chronic Renal Failure is very common, and is often a cause of death at the end of an older dogs life. Whether it is caused by RD or other age related causes. When I asked why the seniors would have been tested this is because I interpreted seniors to be 8+ just from the term seniors, and wondered why at that age people would be testing them. I'm not saying they shouldn't, just wondering what would have prompted them to do so.

I am a very strong advocate of health testing, and believe it is essential that evidence based information is made available alongside testing, so that a pattern emerges for each breed. Otherwise, whilst it is helping individual breeders, it is not giving a information about the RD status of the breed as a whole, and for me that should be part of the overall scheme of things.    The more tested the truer picture will emerge, but I am very wary of blanket statements made based on an unknown number dogs, without even the statisics known.

Whilst there is no money for a 'study', the results so far should be in a database and available at the push of a button I would have thought. This information could be published and updated on the website, and this would hopefully encourage more to participate. I think it's a little discouraging if the results just disappear into a 'black hole'.

There is no 'treatment' as such for CRF, other than dietary management to try and preserve remaining kidney function at the time of diagnosis, through diet, and fluid therapy to make the dog comfortable. Usually by the time diagnosis is made dogs are at end stage CRF.I have lost a dog to CRF myself (old).

I am not sure what the publishing laws are in Canada, but it is a good question for me to ask when I call on Monday. I know with our OFA database, the owners have to give permission to post any results that are outside the norm. As far as results for GSD's I do know the the number tested is still too low to be able to post accurate results on the percentage affected. Most that do test only do so because the disease is highly probable, so the current percentage would not be accurate on the number as a whole.

I will try to find out the number tested and the total results so we can try to understand the percentage as it is now. I also know of several instances where the pups were sent off for a necropsy and the result was RD, but it was never entered into any database.

I just wish breeders would test for this, regardless of issues seen in their kennel or not. It would give a much clearer picture.

Jag girl, this is not an argument, but suppose a kennel does not have dogs dropping from CRF and the entire kennel is healthy and dogs nine to twelve years old are healthy. Looking for problems that don't exist and spending a lot of money to test an entire kennel for a nonexistent problem is akin to paranoia, in my opinion.
Developing a base and calculating a percentage of occurrence within breeds is a scientific study which I don't think should have to be funded by kennel owners. Since Dogenes owns the patent on this particular DNA test, and their price for testing is comparably high for any other DNA tests through other labs, then they should send kits out to various kennels and ask for voluntary participation in the STUDY. Dogenes can pick up the tab , being as they are sole owners of the information.
One question for you, jag girl, (sorry, this spell check won't leave your name the way I type it :-/ ) What will people do with "a percentage of occurrence within the breed" knowledge? Maybe some folks will use all the available DNA information from each breed, like a check list, to decide what breed of dog they want to get ? If that is the way breeds will be chosen, then the mongrels needing rescue will need DNA to determine what breeds they derive from before they can be adopted out.....the check list has to be completed.....

Joanro, the problem with DOGenes paying for the test is that the study is now over and has been since 2008. The ONLY kennel that would participate in the study was Nikonis GSD. All tests were payed for by DOGenes during the funded research. Why should they be required to redo the research and fund everything all over again? It isn't fair for them to do this when they could not get the participation before.

As far as a kennel with all healthy dogs, 90% of the carriers of RD NEVER show a symptom. They do continue to pass it on when they are bred. How does this become an ethical practice? Just because someone has not yet seen it does not mean it will never happen to them.

As far as the percentage question, it's like the incidence of DM in our breed. The percentage of carriers and affected dogs is relatively high so DNA tests are being done to breed it out. How is testing for RD any different? It isn't. It is about refusing to acknowledge a disease which is found in GSD's with multiple excuses on why the test will not be done.

If you (not you specifically) are a reputable breeder and strive to make health in what you breed important, then it is a test I believe should be done. When a breeder has a dog that produces, let's say 4 litters of 6, in their lifetime, with the average rate of pup being $1200, that is $28,800 on the breeding. Hips/elbow/DM are done nowadays on the majority of breeding stock. Are you telling me that there is no way that $135 can be paid for 1 time on that dog for a DNA test? I understand training, showing, and competing can be pricey, but not $28,800 pricey.

When corners are cut our breed suffers. Plain and simple. That's why we have such an issue with genetic disorders today.

I also want to add that there was a huge study on RD with Shih-Tzu's. During this study, complete with DNA and kidney biopsy, it was found that 85% of these dogs carried RD. It showed itself in 3-5% of the population of Shih-Tzu's. Most think, oh 3-5% isn't much. Let's not forget that a total of 85% actually had this.

*UPDATE*

I just got off the phone with DOGenes. Out of the 100 GSD's (yes, only 100) that have been tested, 10 came back positive. This does not include those that were verified by biopsy or necropsy because they are not in their database. I know of 3 personally verified this way. So, that is 13 out of 103. This is not even a true representation of our breed, but it is numbers.