The Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism

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by beetree on 27 March 2013 - 13:03

Bee : so, who defines what "perfection" IS ?

Hundmutter, that would be you. Do you believe perfection exists, in existence as you know it? I would like as many people as possible to answer the question. Especially those that hold a scientifically biased view, that discounts a possible omnipotent creator.

by Felloffher on 27 March 2013 - 14:03

Beetree,

There are some pretty amazing things that happen in our natural world, but I would have a hard time defining them as perfect, based on our limited knowledge.

by beetree on 27 March 2013 - 15:03

Thanks for playing Fellhoffer, and any body else.... Teeth Smile

So, perfection requires a certain knowledge. Agreed? Any idea how we would know the correct knowledge to make such a call at any given point in time? Yet, if one thinks instead, if nothing has reached a state of perfection, yet, could you say that "perfection" is the goal of evolution?

by Felloffher on 27 March 2013 - 15:03

Bee,

I doubt perfection needs our approval or for us to even understand it. In order for us to possibly understand it, I would imagine it would require some knowledge. That is if we are capable of even grasping the concept.

Evolution doesn't have a goal, it has only allowed living things adapt in our environment.

by beetree on 27 March 2013 - 15:03

Don't bail so soon! Approval is not accurate and you know it! That is not at all what I am asking. Either "perfection" is something concrete and real, and therefore observable, or it is merely an ideal. Which is it?

by Felloffher on 27 March 2013 - 15:03

I'm not bailing on you, I guess perfection is an ideal.

by beetree on 27 March 2013 - 16:03

Have ideals ever been attained by any one, or any thing, at any time, in your view; there are no right or wrong answers! For instance, the crocodile or the alligator are pretty much evolutionarily unchanged, or so I've always been told... I didn't google it, but you get what I'm saying? Are they (almost) perfect? If not, does a change or adaptation in evolution always result as a beneficial change for survival, something that will.... say bring them closer to the ideal of that .... perfection of species they represent by their existence?

by Felloffher on 27 March 2013 - 16:03

Individual goals might be achieved that would cause a person to say, I have the "perfect life". However, if pressed, the person making such a claim would undoubtedly find fault in something. Our world isn't static, it is always in a state of change. So, what is close to perfection or the idea of today, could easily be erased tomorrow.

Crocodiles and alligators have undergone significant changes or adaptations when compared to their ancestors. I had to google it, but there are 23 different crocodilian species today, many of which are near extinction. So, they may have evolved into an apex predator, but sadly many species haven't adapted to a planet inhabited by people.

by beetree on 27 March 2013 - 17:03

Our world isn't static, it is always in a state of change. So, what is close to perfection or the idea of today, could easily be erased tomorrow.

And would you say it was always like that? It began chaotic and by chance became something that could be almost perfect, if the human part was not present? Don't you believe that? That the near perfection of Nature would last and persist eternally, without the pressures humans bring to the planet?

by Felloffher on 27 March 2013 - 17:03

And would you say it was always like that?

Yes, there have always been natural and more recently man made events that changed the course of life on this planet.

It began chaotic and by chance became something that could be almost perfect, if the human part was not present?

In spite of our intelligence everything we do fly's in the face of the natural balance that is present. Without us, all other life would have a much brighter and more sustainable future. There will always be life on this planet, unless of course it is destroyed. If we are unable to adapt, we too will become extinct and other species will flourish.

That the near perfection of Nature would last and persist eternally, without the pressures humans bring to the planet?

In some form or another.

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The Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism - Page 9

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