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by Two Moons on 05 January 2014 - 10:01
(Actually, Moons, the 1st responders take you to the local hospital so you CAN be airlifted to a fully-equipped trauma center--you can't just call up a medical air ambulance on the phone and tell them to meet you at the airport, after all. You need to be taken someplace where you can not only be stabilized, but can get additional support care as needed while awaiting the airlift.)
No Hexe, that's not how it's done here..
No Hexe, that's not how it's done here..
by joanro on 05 January 2014 - 10:01
Fair enough, gsd. Happy new year.
by Ruger1 on 05 January 2014 - 11:01
Hund,,I like your last post,,And I agree you,,,
Hexe said, "It happens. Yes, there ARE incompetent and lazy physicians, nurses, radiologists, etc. in the field of human medicine. Just as such people exist in the fields of teaching, auto mechanics, food processing, textile manufacturing and every other job that exists. There are also outstanding people in that field, and average ones as well. And sometimes, even excellent doctors make errors because they're overtired, or juggling too many cases at one time, or they simply missed something, and even because the patient or their family haven't been honest with the provider, or haven't given the whole story to the provider--because shit happens, and as Ruger already said, health care providers are no different than the rest of us: imperfect humans. I find it rather amusing when people belittle the professions because of their own bad experiences with individual members of them, because I simply can't help but wonder why anyone thinks they are owed a miracle--and when medicine works well, it IS a miracle; science IS a miracle, and anyone who fails to see that is fooling themselves.
Hexe,,Very well said ~
Moons,,IMO that is the way it is done everywhere,,,,There is a protocol, and I can not imagine it being done differently,,No, I wont believe it,,
Hexe said, "It happens. Yes, there ARE incompetent and lazy physicians, nurses, radiologists, etc. in the field of human medicine. Just as such people exist in the fields of teaching, auto mechanics, food processing, textile manufacturing and every other job that exists. There are also outstanding people in that field, and average ones as well. And sometimes, even excellent doctors make errors because they're overtired, or juggling too many cases at one time, or they simply missed something, and even because the patient or their family haven't been honest with the provider, or haven't given the whole story to the provider--because shit happens, and as Ruger already said, health care providers are no different than the rest of us: imperfect humans. I find it rather amusing when people belittle the professions because of their own bad experiences with individual members of them, because I simply can't help but wonder why anyone thinks they are owed a miracle--and when medicine works well, it IS a miracle; science IS a miracle, and anyone who fails to see that is fooling themselves.
Hexe,,Very well said ~
Moons,,IMO that is the way it is done everywhere,,,,There is a protocol, and I can not imagine it being done differently,,No, I wont believe it,,
by Ruger1 on 05 January 2014 - 11:01
Moon,,btw,,"IF" air flight to a skilled and equipped trauma center is possible, of course they do make it happen,,BUT, as I said, "you" are NOT the only person in need. Most times the first responders assess, and determine the immediate need, and stabilization is first on the agenda,,IMO,,,Then they go from there,,,
I have worked with all types of medical people, some better then others, but I have never met one that was intentionally looking to harm or "tick" someone off,,~~well the occasional bitchy RN lol~~,We went into the profession for a reason to help and care for those in need,,, Most times our hands are tied due to things out of our control,,
I have worked with all types of medical people, some better then others, but I have never met one that was intentionally looking to harm or "tick" someone off,,~~well the occasional bitchy RN lol~~,We went into the profession for a reason to help and care for those in need,,, Most times our hands are tied due to things out of our control,,
by Two Moons on 05 January 2014 - 11:01
You don't believe my local hospital does just what I said?
It's routine, come try it out for yourself and it will make a believer out of you, if you survive.
The Nine of Ten rule apply's to all humans regardless of occupation.
With the current system you have no options except to refuse care and that's another fact of life.
I feel great sympathy for that poor girl and her family no matter what else is said.
Hexe,
I didn't catch the part about your brother at first, sorry for your loss as well.
It's routine, come try it out for yourself and it will make a believer out of you, if you survive.
The Nine of Ten rule apply's to all humans regardless of occupation.
With the current system you have no options except to refuse care and that's another fact of life.
I feel great sympathy for that poor girl and her family no matter what else is said.
Hexe,
I didn't catch the part about your brother at first, sorry for your loss as well.
by Hundmutter on 05 January 2014 - 12:01
Hexe, whatever Moons's local variations, good post all through. Thank you.
And I was sorry to hear about your brother.
And I was sorry to hear about your brother.
by GSDtravels on 05 January 2014 - 12:01
Hexe, I'm really sorry to hear about your brother, I can't imagine.
When my surgery "went wrong", it wasn't so much the surgical mistake as the after-care multiple mistakes. There were plenty of signs, I found out later, that were ignored and I was released from the hospital. When I was readmitted, the mistakes kept adding up. I don't know if you've ever had kidney pain, but it twists your body as well as your mind. They put me in a bed and left the call button on the wall. After I puked all over myself, the bed and the floor, I had no way to call for help. I was screaming for people in the hall to go get a nurse. It took about 20 minutes for somebody to respond! And this is after I was readmitted because of poor care! Nightmare from beginning to end.
When my surgery "went wrong", it wasn't so much the surgical mistake as the after-care multiple mistakes. There were plenty of signs, I found out later, that were ignored and I was released from the hospital. When I was readmitted, the mistakes kept adding up. I don't know if you've ever had kidney pain, but it twists your body as well as your mind. They put me in a bed and left the call button on the wall. After I puked all over myself, the bed and the floor, I had no way to call for help. I was screaming for people in the hall to go get a nurse. It took about 20 minutes for somebody to respond! And this is after I was readmitted because of poor care! Nightmare from beginning to end.
by GSDtravels on 05 January 2014 - 13:01
Oh, I almost forgot the best part of the story! So, my X gets me "The best malpractice attorney in Pittsburgh!", who promptly tells me I didn't have enought permanent damage to warrant a lawsuit, so my doctor retired and it was put behind me. Keep in mind this was a Catholic Hospital, while I tell you the next part. Ten years later, I find out that "The best malpractice attorney in Pittsburgh!" also happens to be Rick Santorum's brother-in-law. Yeah, I found that out after the statute of limitations had run out. Isn't life just grand?
by GSDtravels on 05 January 2014 - 15:01
Ah, you spoke too soon....
by Mindhunt on 05 January 2014 - 15:01
Here in the US (not sure where some of you are from), there are 3 legally recognized levels of medical first responders who are governed by county medical care and treatment protocols under the direction of one ER doctor (elected) who has the title of Medical Control (Authority) for a specific duration. These medical protocols are standard of care and for malpractice to occur, there must be all 4 parts, 1) there was a duty 2) a breach of this duty occurred 3) harm or injury occurred due to this breach 4) proven causal link between breach and harm. Medical reports must be filed with hospital, and Medical Control Board lead by Medical Control physician. They become part of the patient record and are covered under HIPAA. Not following protocols will result in legal action up to losing your license to practice and yes we are LICENSED by the state we practice in and have to carry malpractice insurance. Also many areas have volunteer EMS not full-time career EMS and that impacts your level of care.
In case you are not sure what exactly what training your local EMS has received.........
EMT - B (Emergency Medical Technician - Basic) are certified to do basic life support such as oxygen, and other noninvasive care and treatment.
EMT - I (Emergency Medical Technician - Intermediate, sometimes called a Specialist) - same as above except allowed to do intubations and IVs but nothing else invasive and no medications
EMT - A (Emergency Medical Technician - Advanced, sometimes called a Paramedic) - as above and allowed to give medications (IO, IV, IM, SQ, SL, PO), cardiovert and defibrillate, needle decompression of chests, cric airways (cut into the cricothyroid membrane in the neck and insert an airway, unfortunately portrayed on TV as someone using the outside tube of a pen or straw), relieve cardiac tamponades which entails large needle aspiration of fluid surrounding the heart, to name some more well known
EMS was always allowed to call in for helicopter transport to an ER if the over the road would take too long. Paramedics do not have to take the patient to the ER to stabilize because we do it in the field, Specialists and Basics do have to take them to ERs in some cases for more advanced care. The considerations for helicopters was no snow, no rain, no low visibility, no moderate wind, and so on and so on. Very specific limited conditions for a chopper to fly. I called in two choppers for a multiple vehicle pile-up on a highway and it was a pretty awesome sight to see one chopper land as the other hovered behind waiting to land.
Unfortunately due to budget cuts, it is extremely rare for rural areas to have either specialists or paramedics and even then, the ambulance is generally licensed as a Basic ambulance not Advanced Life Support and are volunteer. (You can't treat patient as a paramedic if the ambulance is basic). Many big cities are doing away with their Advanced Life Support ambulances and Paramedics. The UP of Michigan has a small handful of Paramedics and only a few licensed Advanced Life Support ambulances due to the budget cuts and the politics of the Hospitals and Nurses Union (won't go into the battle between IAFF and RN unions, it is an age old battle and Paramedics are allowed to do many things in the field that RNs must receive express orders from a Physician to do in hospital and it has been a huge bone of contention). If you want the best care, it is RNs in the hospital and Paramedics pre-hosptial due to the specialized training each group receives.
Two Moons, not sure where you are at, but most EMS are not that way.
In case you are not sure what exactly what training your local EMS has received.........
EMT - B (Emergency Medical Technician - Basic) are certified to do basic life support such as oxygen, and other noninvasive care and treatment.
EMT - I (Emergency Medical Technician - Intermediate, sometimes called a Specialist) - same as above except allowed to do intubations and IVs but nothing else invasive and no medications
EMT - A (Emergency Medical Technician - Advanced, sometimes called a Paramedic) - as above and allowed to give medications (IO, IV, IM, SQ, SL, PO), cardiovert and defibrillate, needle decompression of chests, cric airways (cut into the cricothyroid membrane in the neck and insert an airway, unfortunately portrayed on TV as someone using the outside tube of a pen or straw), relieve cardiac tamponades which entails large needle aspiration of fluid surrounding the heart, to name some more well known
EMS was always allowed to call in for helicopter transport to an ER if the over the road would take too long. Paramedics do not have to take the patient to the ER to stabilize because we do it in the field, Specialists and Basics do have to take them to ERs in some cases for more advanced care. The considerations for helicopters was no snow, no rain, no low visibility, no moderate wind, and so on and so on. Very specific limited conditions for a chopper to fly. I called in two choppers for a multiple vehicle pile-up on a highway and it was a pretty awesome sight to see one chopper land as the other hovered behind waiting to land.
Unfortunately due to budget cuts, it is extremely rare for rural areas to have either specialists or paramedics and even then, the ambulance is generally licensed as a Basic ambulance not Advanced Life Support and are volunteer. (You can't treat patient as a paramedic if the ambulance is basic). Many big cities are doing away with their Advanced Life Support ambulances and Paramedics. The UP of Michigan has a small handful of Paramedics and only a few licensed Advanced Life Support ambulances due to the budget cuts and the politics of the Hospitals and Nurses Union (won't go into the battle between IAFF and RN unions, it is an age old battle and Paramedics are allowed to do many things in the field that RNs must receive express orders from a Physician to do in hospital and it has been a huge bone of contention). If you want the best care, it is RNs in the hospital and Paramedics pre-hosptial due to the specialized training each group receives.
Two Moons, not sure where you are at, but most EMS are not that way.
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