Why not US gsd's - Page 3

Michele, I agree with your post except for the statement that 95% are better than GSDs in the US. I've seen some showlines from Germany...not impressed w/either temperament or working ability. I would gladly put the "worst" pup I've ever bred up against a few of them in both temperament and working ability. No contest. It's not uncommon for European breeders to sell what they don't want to the US, where some sucker will pay big bucks for it because it's German. Otherwise, I totally agree w/the obstacles you cited.

Jenni, I'm talking about every AKC GSD (the vast majority of which are American Showline and BYB) vs average German showline.  Maybe its a regional thing; but in my area, I see 9 BYB pet Shepherds to 1 working line or German Showline. (okay so maybe its more 90% haha).

Ok, I was comparing apples to apples- American bred show lines or working lines to German bred show or working lines. I wasn't considering the pets bred to produce nothing but pets, which happens all over the world, just talking about dogs bred to the standard (supposedly);)

Here are pedigrees of some USA bred dogs.  I am sure there are more but these come to mind:

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=697503-cash-alexander-the-great

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=130314-pacco-vom-nadelhaus

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=612787-ankaa-vom-nadelhaus

The mother of this BSZS VA is Yada Mittelwest:
https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=487468-paer-vom-hasenborn

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=730300-aschi-vom-haus-hutfeld

Out of Ankaa Nadelhaus:
https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=714182-pacco-vom-langenbungert

Congratulations to the owners and breeders of these dogs.

Edited to add:  Pacco Langenbungert



 

Is there a good reason that most, by a good margin, gsd's in higher level, regionals on up to world level, are not home bred, meaning here in US?
most serious competitors buy pre-worked/conditioned dogs at an age where health (HD, ED, spine) as well as potential can be assessed quite definitively. the time and cost requirements to raise puppies and have a bunch strike out are just too high. in the euro-corridor spanning belgium/holland/denmark/germany/czech repl., you can look at twenty, maybe thirty, prospects over the course of a week and on short notice. and all that at a cost, depending on your comfort requirements, of some $4000. bier, akvavit, and slivovitz inclusive. even if one could source a decent number of prospects stateside, and that's a big fat if, the time and cost to look at all of them is a horrid multiple of a euro-trip and rather prohibitive. moreover, more supply can translate to better prices.  so yes, there are several good reasons. 
 
And the ones that are have import pedigrees a generation or two back.
aside from the issues already raised in the previous posts, you have a continuous inflow of visible and potentially high-end, successful competition imports that find their way into the front rows of us-breeding operations. similarly, a breeder trying to upgrade or supplement stock faces essentially the same costing decision as a handler and seemingly quite often ends up going the same route. 

overall, i actually find it quite a testament to us-breeders that there are that many us-bred dogs in use at the higher and highest levels.
 

I've met a few different people, randomly out on the streets or in pet stores or whatever, who see my dog and come over to chat. One guy, I remember, the first thing out of his mouth "Is that dog from overseas?" I said "Um... her parents were." He asked next "Were their joints certified?" I replied "yeah", and then he said "The dogs bred here in the US are crap. Their hips are horrible and they will fall apart within the first year or two. The dogs from overseas are so much better." So at that point I asked him if he had a dog, and he told me yes, but she was in the truck because she was super mean... but mind you, she was imported from Slovak so she was 20 times better than any of the dogs you see bred in the US. He described her to me like she was the cream of the crop, but within two sentences I could tell she was an oversized, nervebag with super poor temperament that someone from overseas made a quick buck off of.

Another guy I met had a German showline pup (3 mos or so?) that he had just gotten off the plane a few days- a week ago. Pup was very nervous and skittish, whimpering at everything. Kudos to the guy for getting him out and socializing him, he was trying very hard with the pup, I could tell, and I hope he's helped him to overcome that. He did also mention maybe trying to show in the future, but I'm not sure how that would work out for that pup either. He said he was from VA parents, but he was very cow-hocked and had weak hocks and pasterns... roach-back too. Maybe that is something he would grow out of - I'm not familiar with showlines, maybe that look is desired, but definitely was not my cup of tea. He did have the deep red/black coloring though, so I guess he had that going for him. His owner also told me that he got his pup from Germany because "hips are just so much better over there".

I personally don't understand that, I always like to meet the dog/pup in person before committing to adding it to our home. People can say a lot of things, and there is no guarantee they are being truthful about any of it. If ever I were to import a dog, it would have to be through someone I trusted 100%, and even then I'm not sure if I would do it. Plenty of good dogs being bred in the US to take the risk, IMO.

Showlines aren't supposed to be cowhocked,  down in the pasterns, or have a roachy topline either. It's no more desirable in showlines than in workinglines but common faults in both anyway. Someone sure sold the joint "expert" a bill of goods. If it's an import, it has to be good. The best European dogs don't normally make it to the US in the first place, they stay in Europe.

I'd like to see some pedigrees of GSD's that have Va'd  at NASS or the BSZS that are 2,3 generations of Am Bred dogs on both sides of the pedigree.

I hope this thread doesn't turn into another debate over working vs show vs working....... We all have our druthers, it's not about that.

Some very good points made here,I want to add my 2 cents worth,for one if a dog is bred in a backyard or a very large kennel the Genes dont change it all starts with what genes that are matched together some breeders produce few litters but because of the care and thought about what they are trying to produce have done very well.I do agree with the one poster that of the top breeders here in the USA we should support each other and try to buy from each other on what can be produced here.There does seem to be a stigma that just because a dog is an import it has to be good, thats false, it can be better but can be much worse also,out of the last 5 working pups I have bought 4 were born in the USA and 1 was an import,and as it turned out the import was by far the worse dog, I was lucky enough be able to travel to each litter that I picked out of in  america, so granted that is one big advantage of buying over sight unseen,though on paper the import should have been something special, and on top of that by the time you are paying 1000 or so on shipping alone from Europe the price doesnt pencil out,if one looks long and hard enough top dogs can be bought in america for under 1000 if you dont have to fly the dog or pup, just because you pay 2000 for a pup it does mean for sure you will  get a better dog than if your only paying 500 for it.