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by beetree on 15 February 2013 - 20:02
Oh dear, here comes the mean-streak. And I thought we'd gotten all beyond that "crap"! LOL
by BabyEagle4U on 15 February 2013 - 21:02
Unbelievable. Get some help. 
by Two Moons on 15 February 2013 - 21:02
What we are now Bee is the result of every interaction we have ever had.
There will be good times and there will be bad times, life goes on.
There will be good times and there will be bad times, life goes on.
by beetree on 15 February 2013 - 22:02
Hey BE4U....I'm not the one with a septuagenarian in my avatar....LOL! 
by Keith Grossman on 16 February 2013 - 00:02
"There will be good times and there will be bad times, life goes on."
You are wise, oh Shamu; thank you for this deep, nebulous message!
LMAO...Hari, Hari, Rama, Rama...
You are wise, oh Shamu; thank you for this deep, nebulous message!
LMAO...Hari, Hari, Rama, Rama...
by Two Moons on 16 February 2013 - 01:02
Keith,
that was for Bee who thought we, (her and I ) had gotten beyond all that CRAP !!!
You just stepped into a very large pile of it, and now you got it all over your shoes.
It's Hare Krishna anyway.
that was for Bee who thought we, (her and I ) had gotten beyond all that CRAP !!!
You just stepped into a very large pile of it, and now you got it all over your shoes.
It's Hare Krishna anyway.
by hexe on 16 February 2013 - 02:02
<clutching pearls> Gasp!
Sheriff: Ex-cop Dorner died of gunshot to head
...he said, to the surprise of absolutely no one. I'm confident that even if Dorner had died from cardiac arrest, the official report would state that he died from a self-inflicted shot to the head.
Not saying that I doubt that he DID die of this, mind you--just that it was necessary for the situation to have come to that. I've never had any inclination to follow suit, but I'm pretty sure that if I were inside a wooden structure that had been set ablaze by the people outside of the structure, and knew they were not only armed but were unquestionably going to kill me, I'd select a single self-inflicted gunshot to the head over 100 or more individual ones before someone got a lucky lethal shot.
It shouldn't have had to come to all of that; if Dorner's claim that he suffered a serious head injury his time with the Mobile Inland Underwater unit was true, it would account for such atrocious sociopathic actions on his part, though it does not and would not excuse it. I am glad to learn that he didn't leave any children of his own behind; bad enough that there are other children who lost a parent, other people who lost partners and children, as a direct result of his descent into hell...more kids suffering emotional damage from all of it would benefit no one.
bee, I think you know that I'm not generally willing to board the 'conspiracy express', and I agree with you that it hardly seems any secret that this event would likely end with the death of Dorner and that law enforcement was probably not going to go to any lengths whatsoever to prevent that from happening, so long as that didn't endanger anyone else but Dorner...but that doesn't eliminate the possibility that there was some conspiring involved. There is truth in the statement, "Even paranoid people have enemies"...they probably just don't have as many as they imagine. Just because somebody or some entity becomes so emboldened and confident that they flaunt their circumvention or dismissal of protocol, practice, morality or law without consequence does NOT negate any conspiracy to do such--it simply means that the person or group no longer feels it necessary to conceal it. But they certainly aren't going to announce it, or admit to it when the public and/or the press call them out on the activity or behavior.
Sheriff: Ex-cop Dorner died of gunshot to head
...he said, to the surprise of absolutely no one. I'm confident that even if Dorner had died from cardiac arrest, the official report would state that he died from a self-inflicted shot to the head.
Not saying that I doubt that he DID die of this, mind you--just that it was necessary for the situation to have come to that. I've never had any inclination to follow suit, but I'm pretty sure that if I were inside a wooden structure that had been set ablaze by the people outside of the structure, and knew they were not only armed but were unquestionably going to kill me, I'd select a single self-inflicted gunshot to the head over 100 or more individual ones before someone got a lucky lethal shot.
It shouldn't have had to come to all of that; if Dorner's claim that he suffered a serious head injury his time with the Mobile Inland Underwater unit was true, it would account for such atrocious sociopathic actions on his part, though it does not and would not excuse it. I am glad to learn that he didn't leave any children of his own behind; bad enough that there are other children who lost a parent, other people who lost partners and children, as a direct result of his descent into hell...more kids suffering emotional damage from all of it would benefit no one.
bee, I think you know that I'm not generally willing to board the 'conspiracy express', and I agree with you that it hardly seems any secret that this event would likely end with the death of Dorner and that law enforcement was probably not going to go to any lengths whatsoever to prevent that from happening, so long as that didn't endanger anyone else but Dorner...but that doesn't eliminate the possibility that there was some conspiring involved. There is truth in the statement, "Even paranoid people have enemies"...they probably just don't have as many as they imagine. Just because somebody or some entity becomes so emboldened and confident that they flaunt their circumvention or dismissal of protocol, practice, morality or law without consequence does NOT negate any conspiracy to do such--it simply means that the person or group no longer feels it necessary to conceal it. But they certainly aren't going to announce it, or admit to it when the public and/or the press call them out on the activity or behavior.
by beetree on 16 February 2013 - 14:02
hexe,
You can put your pearls down! LOL
I do understand your position on this matter. However, no-one commenting the past day, except myself, apparently believes: IF he had wanted to surrender, he could have. The fact is, he never tried to surrender, so we can only surmise that he got the ending he envisioned. He was an expert --remember, on what the cops WOULD do.
Now, it is much harder for me to reconcile the fact that he did not kill the couple who were victims of this cabin invasion, and the carjack guy, with this apparent contradiction to value their lives as innocent and well, because they were unnamed in his manifesto, I guess. These acts of decency could be argued as his downfall. Or not? He could have hid out for a very long time! His last moves were anything but those of a well-oiled, Ramboesque invincibility. Either he was losing it towards the end, or he created the ending. Hmmm. What do you think?
You can put your pearls down! LOL
I do understand your position on this matter. However, no-one commenting the past day, except myself, apparently believes: IF he had wanted to surrender, he could have. The fact is, he never tried to surrender, so we can only surmise that he got the ending he envisioned. He was an expert --remember, on what the cops WOULD do.
Now, it is much harder for me to reconcile the fact that he did not kill the couple who were victims of this cabin invasion, and the carjack guy, with this apparent contradiction to value their lives as innocent and well, because they were unnamed in his manifesto, I guess. These acts of decency could be argued as his downfall. Or not? He could have hid out for a very long time! His last moves were anything but those of a well-oiled, Ramboesque invincibility. Either he was losing it towards the end, or he created the ending. Hmmm. What do you think?
by Two Moons on 16 February 2013 - 18:02
I do not believe a head injury caused his (descent into hell), as you put it hexe.
I do believe surrender was never an option, he may have imagined survival and escape early on, but once he was cornered I think he knew exactly how things were going to end.
The people he did not kill, he had no reason to kill.
No (atrocious sociopathic actions), I can see.
Nothing (Ramboesque) about it.
No matter what I doubt he could have escaped the area in a vehicle, or on foot.
As for a possible surrender, I wonder.
Without news camera's watching do you think he could have come out, hands in the air, and surrendered?
Or do you think he would have been killed on the spot regardless?
Surrender was never an option for him I'm sure, but the question has merit anyway.
I do believe surrender was never an option, he may have imagined survival and escape early on, but once he was cornered I think he knew exactly how things were going to end.
The people he did not kill, he had no reason to kill.
No (atrocious sociopathic actions), I can see.
Nothing (Ramboesque) about it.
No matter what I doubt he could have escaped the area in a vehicle, or on foot.
As for a possible surrender, I wonder.
Without news camera's watching do you think he could have come out, hands in the air, and surrendered?
Or do you think he would have been killed on the spot regardless?
Surrender was never an option for him I'm sure, but the question has merit anyway.
by hexe on 16 February 2013 - 23:02
bee, actually, if you review his complete record with LAPD, after he returned from Bahrain, he wasn't right...at one point, they found him sitting in the back of the patrol car, crying, because he wasn't adjusting to being back. He completed the program the force has for returning veterans who are having trouble reassimilating, but that doesn't mean it was actually successfull--just that he completed it.
But yeah, you're right. You have been the only one who thinks that surrender was an option that was on the table at all times in this tableau. I'd like to think that, too...it would make me be able to feel badly only for the people he shot and their families, and his own mother, and not expend a millisecond of compassion for him.
Before the first cop was shot by him, I'd say that maybe it still was possible. Once he crossed that line, however, I really do believe that any such option evaporated immediately unless it happened under very specific circumstances--like him turning himself in to somebody who was high-profile [Charlie Sheen? LOL! He did reach out to him...] and then the whole process of him being handed over to law enforcement was filmed from start to finish. Because by then, things had devolved into shots being fired at 2 small Asian women who were driving a purple truck just because they were in the wrong place and the wrong vehicle. By the time one San Bernardino deputy was killed and another injured, I'm sorry, but I just can't find anything that was done by LE from that point forward which even remotely suggests to me that they were still open to accepting a surrender from him as things stood then. Again, maybe if he'd asked for some high-profile individual to come to that site and negotiate the surrender, maybe it would have been accepted under those conditions. But when it was just him in that cabin surrounded by law enforcement and a the media that had been permitted to be there, nope. Don't think that there was any other way that was going to end.
I'm most definitely not one of those "We Stand with Christopher Dorner" people--I'm just deeply saddened by the losses all around. This was a guy who, along with a friend, found $8000 that belonged to a church; the two of them could have easily kept the money and no one would have been the wiser, but they turned it in because it was the right thing to do. When he was asked about, he said it was 'about integrity'. The concept seems to have gotten corrupted in his vision since that time, and it's just sad, sad, sad for everybody.
But yeah, you're right. You have been the only one who thinks that surrender was an option that was on the table at all times in this tableau. I'd like to think that, too...it would make me be able to feel badly only for the people he shot and their families, and his own mother, and not expend a millisecond of compassion for him.
Before the first cop was shot by him, I'd say that maybe it still was possible. Once he crossed that line, however, I really do believe that any such option evaporated immediately unless it happened under very specific circumstances--like him turning himself in to somebody who was high-profile [Charlie Sheen? LOL! He did reach out to him...] and then the whole process of him being handed over to law enforcement was filmed from start to finish. Because by then, things had devolved into shots being fired at 2 small Asian women who were driving a purple truck just because they were in the wrong place and the wrong vehicle. By the time one San Bernardino deputy was killed and another injured, I'm sorry, but I just can't find anything that was done by LE from that point forward which even remotely suggests to me that they were still open to accepting a surrender from him as things stood then. Again, maybe if he'd asked for some high-profile individual to come to that site and negotiate the surrender, maybe it would have been accepted under those conditions. But when it was just him in that cabin surrounded by law enforcement and a the media that had been permitted to be there, nope. Don't think that there was any other way that was going to end.
I'm most definitely not one of those "We Stand with Christopher Dorner" people--I'm just deeply saddened by the losses all around. This was a guy who, along with a friend, found $8000 that belonged to a church; the two of them could have easily kept the money and no one would have been the wiser, but they turned it in because it was the right thing to do. When he was asked about, he said it was 'about integrity'. The concept seems to have gotten corrupted in his vision since that time, and it's just sad, sad, sad for everybody.
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