nothing from nothing - Page 2

Carlin, I decided to give comment on your link in VK4’s thread? Something on implications of the laws of thermodynamics, first of all we have to realize, just using proving physical laws, chemistry and physics – using what science has proven to such an extend that is actually merited the position of a law, something that when ever tested, no matter how often - no matter by whom? We always get the same result. When we are using pristine pure science like the laws of thermodynamics which Einstein said never being overthrown by the advanced of science, you would think you would be open and shut case, you would think well VK4 just fall-over dead in front of this overwhelming in unassailable scientific facts that I had presented on this forum; but there is a problem have to be surprised of? Whenever you debate, whenever you witness to someone like to VK4 and whenever you have a conversation with an evolutionist you have to really cut through a big smoke screen, you have to cut through big premise they have that is not correct, it’s not logical, is not legitimate but you have to point that out to them and pray the holy spirit will help them to grasp that because they start with premise that basically said, no matter of the all evidence is against evolution and all of the appears to support intelligent design, creation is a religion by the definition and evolution is science how VK4 defines that, there for we must go with science and evolution wins anyway is how VK4 thinks…But there is also something else about VK4? Which he really don’t want to believe in God, because that means there is somebody bigger and smarter than VK4 and similar secular folks like him, believe it or NOT Carlin - but that bothers people on this forum, they think they have a corner open knowledge, they think there intellect is the highest universe, they don’t want somebody infinitely superior to them, and they certainly don’t want such a powerful being to have a right to judge them for how they run there life and that is the big issue to them that is the worst nightmare, that’s the reality they hope it’s not true and unfortunately is the scripture tells us Romans Chapter 1 when man knew God but they would not honor him as God…God judgment on them, was to turn them over to reprobate mind and although they profess to be wise and although they may be wise the things of the world, having PhD’s and etc…but they missed the boat, because they missed the most important truth, human heart can embrace, if there is a God who made us, that is the purpose – the meaning – and destiny of our existence and if VK4 missed that? Which: VK4 “secular profitable man” to gain the whole world and loose his soul.
You see Carlin no scientist can prove there is no God! To prove that there is no God you would have to be everywhere present to make sure he is not hiding somewhere in universe, which means you have to be omnipresent and you have to be knowledgeable of every fact that exist everywhere in the entire universe “omnipresent” and “omnitions” those of characteristics in infinite God and you would have to have those characteristics to prove that there is no God, but if you did had them you would qualify as God therefore you would be God and God would exist and it is self refuting logical argument. You can’t prove universal negative unless you have universal knowledge, which you don’t have in science - does not have…So why can VK4 and similar folks like him won’t allow divine foot in the door? The answer is Carlin because they honestly don’t want it…
Now to return to my point here the second law of thermodynamics sounds formidable but it something we all too familiar with; basically the law of degeneration overtime…with time things tend fall apart and wear-out, it may have a big name but we all too familiar with bondage of corruption and decay formulize in the second law of thermodynamics, with time things tend to go from a state of high free energy to loss available free energy and entropy and from complexity to disorder and simplicity. Now Carlin implications of laws thermodynamics is where I originally left of in my original introduction of my post is what I want to address, the second law is law of increasing disorder, increasing laws of free energy and increasing entropy over time…entropy being define as randomness disorderliness in system or dilute energy, the loss of free energy into the dilute energy that’s there but cannot be harness anymore! – Now the first law is law mass energy conservation, things die “dies” we know, matter is kind of form of energy kind Coates energy, so it’s all energy up there, but the first law says no matter what happens, whether things blow up or burned down, things get transporter, whatever reactions happened in the universe the books always balance, you never have more energy at the end or less in the end at any transformation that any had before! There is always this conservation, the books balance, always the same amount of energy that you started with. That means the first law states matter cannot be created or destroyed, energy cannot be created or destroyed ultimately in that sense…matter and energy remains constant! It can be transformed but the “amount remains constant” and so that means that the quantity remains constant according to the first law, however the second law says that the quality does not remain constant, the quality degrades overtime…the universe is running down irreversibly according to the second law, that means it eventually reach the ultimate heat death or total entropy whether be no more free energy available anywhere in the universe, it all be dilute entropy, everything will be dark and cold, no life, no useful work can be done anywhere in the universe…Now again Carlin, since it is irreversibly running down what is that mean? The universe cannot be infinitely old; the VK4 would love to have infinitely old universe – that’s eternal and therefore that is VK4’s eternal God - instead the eternal creator! But the second law proving science that it can’t be, because it’s running down and it will reach an end, it hasn’t reach end yet - it therefore it cannot be infinitely older, it long sense it would be maximum entropy and no life and no evolution - no nothing could exist…So the second law clearly shows universe must have a beginning, one something or someone put that free energy there! That is now running down irreversibly, so the second law says universe must had a beginning, but the first law says it could not had began itself by natural law; why? Because matter, energy cannot create or destroy them-selves – NOT by natural law, so we must have a beginning but the universe cannot begin itself – by natural law, what do we need Carlin? Something supernatural; something transcended the limitations of space and time natural laws, something like omnitions - omnipotent creator, who transcends all this limitations and was eternal, therefore had no beginning, therefore needs no-cause to explain his origin. I hope this is clear!!! Shtal.
 

Shtal, your posts would always be clearer if you put in some paragraph
breaks !

You know what you said above about vk4 and  "secular folks like him",
that we can't deal with the idea that there is 'someone'  "bigger and smarter" ?
Hey, I got news for you !   Personally I am only too aware there are already
many, many humans smarter, more intelligent, 'bigger' in the sense of being
well-known, or more powerful than I am.  Guess what ?  I know that and I
DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.  If you turned out to be right and not only is there
a god above but he/it is exactly what you say,  I STILL wouldn't worry about it. 

You have a nice day.

Hundmutter,


Right from the beginning I think God created all things in six days and he took his hands off and allow them to run down, that is not changing the law of physics, it’s the same God. God is the same yesterday, today and forever, he is not changed. Except for when man’s fall was introducing entropy - had not being for Adam and Eve disobeying, I believe there would be no death in the world and everything would have persisted forever. Many People misunderstand this subject about laws of physics consistence through out God existence. God is eternal, and I would never try to put God into our laws, God is not subject to time, space and matter, he is above and beyond and outside all of those. You see “I think” entropy came in - at the fall of man, “so far that is the best answer I have”, my guess the fall happened about 100 years or so after creation...you see God looked at everything at the end of chapter 1 in Genesis and said it was very good.



Shtal.

Agree its all eves fault.


wtf is dilute entropy?


oh and v4 doesn't want an infinite universe and vk. is not concerned that there are people smarter than vk..

vk actually very happy there is many people smarter than vk.
vk is the prettiest not the smartest.



oh you raisec an interesting point vk can not prove god does not exist, vk does not have to because vk is both smarter than you and vk is god, can you prove vk is not god?



oh and you are mixing up entropy free energy and energy mass conservation and some made up terms into a big mangled mash of word jumbles, you would be less laughable if you just chose a couple things you actually understand and discussed them.

Hey dip dipshit why is yr "omnition" god "hiding" he fears big god vk will find him and make him his bitch so he "hides" wtf?

come to think of it how can a omnition (whatever the fuk that means) and omnipresent god that occupies all space and time hide anywhere, shouldn't i just bump into him or her everywhere at all times and not be able to avoid he, she, it? imean for chrissakes if i seen a 3 headed god that was "bigger" and smarter than me i think i would remember.

When you finish explaining my previous questions could you elaborate on how adam and eve "caused entropy", kind of throws thermodynamics out the garden if wad caused in the garden wouldn't. you say...bro.

did adam and eve never stop to take a dump before the fall? or eas taking dumps part of the punishment like period pain? i mean a turd is pretty disordered kind of like yr writing, wouldn't you agree? and turds do tend to take on the temperature of their surroundings and diffuse their nasty odour acrosd the concentration gradient. well mine do, maybe yr shit don't stink tho being an avenging angel and all, but for the rest of us.... you said it, you explain it.

Shtal, what did I say in my last post that resulted in me getting YOUR
last post addressed to me ?   Please do not preach directly at me, I don't
find it particularly objectionable, but it really serves no purpose.

One thing in your post intrigued me though:  if your god looked at everything
at the end of Gen.1 & was content with it,  does that mean you are still
maintaining that god him/itself WROTE the words on that page ?  (Even meta-
physically rather than physically ?).

What was the time lag between god looked at his creation in its perfection and saw all was good and his first two humans ever invented fuked up and caused every living thing to be cursed to death and entropy to start. we talking hours, weeks. months, years...what?

I would think it would be when the Particles form, as per the below diagram. That would give God between 1 second and 100 seconds to make his pronouncement. Click on the link to see larger image for details.

  http://media.skyandtelescope.com/images/universe_big+bang_timeline_highres.jpg

Not possible cos there was already. talking snakes and vegetarian tigers and dinosaurs walking around eating beans with adam and evel when god said it was good.


particles would have formed long before this.