Meditation vs Prayer - Page 2

I have a different take on it, LF.  I don't think any people or faith group can claim such an act as "meditation" as a proprietary act. Since it is something accomplished entirely inside of one's own thoughts, something that is uncontrollable by another, really. They'd have to have thought police to enforce such a bias, I think.  I might have misread, but you do feel you have a personal relationship with your God through prayer?

Thanks for replying with honesty on your POV, that is appreciated.

I have a few more thoughts floating around in my head. I am going to wait and see if any one else will weigh-in with theirs, first.

beetree I dont disagree with your take...it is individualized understanding; it is a practice that can be altered to fit ones need if you reached your set goal of meditated state who am I to say that you did not? or what if your goal is different than mine? 
The closest i can describe being in "meditated" state, which to me means clarity of mind and mind over matter control -  that I experienced is when i went rock climbing (my father has a highest rank in rock climbing, and i have uncle who had climbed mt Everest)......so it was natural that I was dragged along and yes I mean dragged...being 17 i had other priorities than climbing a stupid rock in Yosemite National Park Half Dom, being sore for days and in pain and broken nails was not my idea of fun....
Anyways, so we are climbing for what seemed like hours and hours and i am reaching the giving up point, my body is screaming at me, i am yelling that I am done, but i have no spotter on the ground no one to lower me down since the plan was to go up and the first person has not reached the "top" point yet, i am starting to shake, uncontrollable shakiness of muscle, i feel hot and cold flashes, i am feeling "the fear", i am frozen in spot and i cant unclench my hands, i cant even yell, at that moment i feel like my body is going to shut down, i been in the same spot for maybe 10 min. i should feel rested but fears of falling which i never had before are crossing my mind, i am vivdly seeing how i am bouncing off the rocks, how i am breaking my leg, i am in a full mode of a panic attack....and than i remembered stories my father told me when he had reached points like that when he thought that was it and he would end stories with "its mind over matter, just tell the body to shut up and obey what your mind it telling it"....you would think thats the biggest cliche, I always did until i made myself stop and i mean i literally had to yell "stop shaking, stop it". and "go, now, move"...believe me you stop feeling it, you stop being scared, your body stops whinnying and complaining, you are moving weightlessly and you can keep going and going....if any of you are runners you would know similar feeling just on a milder scale when you run for miles and eventually you stop hurting or feeling pain and than you can pretty much double the distance...same thing except add fear to it and uncontrollable shakes.. so that was the only time in my life where i truly felt i had a clear mind nothing was saying to me that it hurts, that i had something to do, i had no worries, no thoughts of anything just climbing and moving,  it is easier to get control over body once you do it once, I dont know how to explain the separation,  "body" just stops controlling your ambitions of what you are set out to do...it is hard to explain...was i meditating to reach that state? no...was I trying to achive meditating state? no...did i achieve the effect of meditation? I think so... am I right? no idea...but thats what meditative state would mean to me...

and no you did not misunderstand...i believe i do.

I always worry that people who meditate regularly, thus spending
big chunks of their time in altered/transcendental states, deprive
themselves of the ability and the drive to make things happen in the
everyday world.  Despite claims in mags etc to the contrary, the only
people I've ever met who were effective and active in politics, voluntary
work, social help services etc were those who did NOT swear by the
'benefits' of meditation;  and those I've discussed it with who DO meditate
don't ever really seem to do much else ...

I think TM can numb you to life's difficulties, rather than relax and inspire you.
Bit like a drug or two I could think of, used too often !  JMHO.

LF: Interesting idea, actually. I can see how you could make a connection to meditation to what you experienced. Awesome family history and story BTW! Some of those things do happen in meditation. Eliminating matter (the muscle conflict and the gripping situation) would leave only the mind (feeling a slowing down of time to think clearly the best survival move). The difference being, the fight or flight reason that drove you to such a state of inner focus. IMHO

Hundmutter: You do touch upon one of the ideas floating around still, in my head. I do think everyday meditation can be used as a recharge of sorts in measured doses, it is calming and that has to be good. Strange, but meditation in that excessive way as a path to some forms of enlightenment, does seem to lead the actual life to immobility. 

 

No Bee,
they are not the same at all.

To pray is to attempt to communicate with a deity and you have to follow certain rules.

To meditate is to communicate with yourself and there are no rules.

To pray takes you in theory in a straight line, to and from a deity.
 
To meditate frees you of all limits and boundaries.

Anyone can pray, but few are capable of true meditation.

Many cultures resort to various devices to aid meditation and prayer or rituals.

But there is no shortcut to true meditation.

 

bee.... here is another idea....i always wondered if by putting someone in deprivation chamber and eliminating ability to use senses like smell, sight, sound....would one reach meditative state faster? or is part of a challenge to reach meditative state is to obtain ability to eliminate disruptive obstacles and concurring one self?

That would be a nightmare of a device and would defeat the purpose.


 

I found a video for you by the way LadyFrost, page 75........:)

To meditate is to communicate with yourself and there are no rules.
                                                                ~Moons quote from above

Meditation as I have been taught, has the purpose to slow one's thoughts by emptying them. Always sounds so boring and a time waster when there is a list of other stuff to do. It is that ever present voice in your head that one needs to get past. If you are never happy during a purposeful act of meditation, because of not having found this place, then I don't think some people have really made that journey, completely. Still in the valley collecting the tools for the journey. And that is okay. Everybody starts somewhere.


Same with prayer, maybe, I am thinking any way. Any one ever "hear" a voice answer back?