I think treat training is cruel. - Page 19

BE - his training is coming along very nicely - well done. I noticed the first time he actually opened the drawer that you used your voice as a reinforcer of his actions (good boy). Then it was inconsistent when you used your voice to reinforce, but you did sometimes. You always used the clicker to mark the behaviour though, so it was very effective. I was wondering when you start to 'attach' the command to initiate the action, as in saying 'drawer' when he is actually opening it (making it a verbal reinforcer), to get him to associate the action of opening the drawer with the command.

BTW - that was a display of intense 'cruelty'.   LOL

 

The clicker is the primary marker in this. That's what is giving the dog the information he needs to figure out what I want from him. I use my voice at key moments. First when he opened the drawer for the first time. Then when we somewhat chained it for the first time with the meds. Then he had some good pulls and after that he half heartedly went back to just picking up the tab. Once he opened the drawer pretty good again, thats when I reinforced it with my voice on top of jackpotting. Then I chained it again. I wish I had filmed the second session because thats when he opened the drawer and picked up the meds without me having to point it out.

Once he reliably performs both, opening the drawer and picking up the meds, that's when I start using the command. I did so in between to see if he would actually get the picture and he did. He understood the overall picture that "Get my Meds" means "Open the drawer". But in reality there are three steps to it. Open the drawer, picking up the item, close the drawer. So I usually chain the drawer and meds together from the beginning and than add in closing the drawer. Closing the drawer I will put on command once he understands the behavior so I can cue it and add it into the chain.

His entire retrieve is shaped as well, that's why opening the drawer was so easy for him. Now closing the drawer, that is a different story. i have not spent as much time using his nosetouch other than with the Mannersminder Wobbler. So that will be a very good video to make. I'll use a different drawer though without any handle so there won't be any conflict about him trying to open it.

The confusion about marker training stems from seeing either poor examples or finished products. Most people don't want to put themselves out there, because there is always someone that judges.

 

So much torture indeed. Someone call animal control, I'm training a dog - with food.... LOL

So true BE-
About putting vids out here...to lots of judging.
But I do wish more of us would post vids. We can never see enough, compare enough, or learn enough. Hats off to all you guys that do!

I don’t do a lot of vids, usually because I don’t think to make them in time....only after the fact, when I have that V8 moment. 

I marker train all my dogs for pretty much everything. Almost literally the first minute I get them, I start. First lesson is always “look at me”. It takes a normal 8 week old pup maybe 15 seconds to 1 minute to understand that one.   
  
Day before yesterday I actually did a rare vid. Always a humbling experience when watching because you see your mistakes much better.

So I’ll post it below. A quick lead-up to the vid...

I used marker training to teach the heel. I have taught my dog 4 types of heeling modes. The contact heel (so I feel my dog), the formal no-contact, look at me heel, the relaxed heel, and heeling on the right side.

I use no leash for teaching most things.
I start with only high food value...like roast beef or small chunks of beef and small rings of Hot Dogs. How cruel. I bet the dog hates me.

The difference to traditionally taught heeling might be this following benefit: (...although all things are possible to teach in any way - marker training just maybe is faster and clearer to the dog)

My dog is taught NOT to think of it as ‘walking next to me’...but instead he is operantly conditioned with marker training to STAY with his front  shoulder by my knee...no matter where my knee is in space and time, when I say fuss.
This makes a big difference.
It takes away any confusion for the dog when you add any other element...like turning, going backwards, changing speeds, or going in circles...walking on different or new surfaces, etc...which are done automatically. And, eliminates any forging.

So in the vid...I am, for the very FIRST time, teaching and conditioning the dog to walk backwards over a very big log. Next step may be....go backwards up the stairs. Which while not very useful for me, might be useful for LE work. Plus, it strengthens their rear leg awareness.

I have to teach the dog nothing else, exept “stay by my knee with your shoulder”.

You will see him coming into fuss nicely at the beginning....but after the first time we step over the log, and I start to go backwards....he will turn to me and vocalize in the tone of “hey, you DO know there is a log behind us, right?!!”

But, the conditioning kicks in as I repeat the cue fuss, and he goes..”well, ok, if you say so boss.” And goes backward over the log. Half way through, I stop cueing fuss, because he now knows this drill. I concentrated first mostly with his front legs only, then his back legs. 
It took less than 1 minute and no leash.

As a note: We are on a public dog beach, so in front of us are a few off leash dogs, walking or playing along the beach. I need no other reinforment to keep the dog at my side. No treats are needed anymore. The reinforment, the dog gets afterwards? Is my releasing him to “lauf”...to run, at ease. We are now finished and now we play. He has worked for me...as a team...and now my promise to him is that we play together as a team.

Disclaimer: The log is very slippery, covered in sea slime and moss, so I look pretty goofy in movement as I’m concerned my rubber boots will slip on sand or log, and it’s raining. BTW, my dog is a white gsd (BBS) he might look cute cause he’s white, don’t be fooled,  he can pack a punch. I call him my discreet lady gun. 

He is 1.5 years old. 

 https://vimeo.com/303635500

 
BTW, he is also conditioned to sit everytime I stop walking when in heel, which is why he auto-sits when we cross to the front of log.

 
 


 

 

Jesse, do link copy of the video.
Then, click ' enable editor' on the upper right corner of the post.
When the stuff comes up on top of post, click the paper clip.
The box shows up in post, then paste the link in the slot. Then click ok.

Joan-
Ok, will try that.

.....ok, got it. I wanted to get the whole video in the window, like with YouTube. But maybe not possible with Vimeo? 

JJ and BE, Great advice on the marker training. Looking forward to more videos.

 

 

Just post the link to the vimeo video itself. We'll be able to watch it by going to the page.

JJ, the link worked. Thanks for taking the time to share it!

Barenfangs, from that video i presume dog was already trained previously for that drawer trick and you made video shot only to show your work with dog using a clicker. please correct me if i'm wrong.
as for an exercise, it's somewhat overwhelming with endless clicking, lots of food and interruption of the dog during his attempt to perform requested task. doesn't make much of sense. final conclusion comes to mind - "hey you, look how my dog know that after click he will have kibble".

Jesse, is that dog quite tall or you're pretty short.
nevertheless, both are nice looking, you and dog. seems you taking care of that dog well.

No, he was not trained for this specific task previously. This is a brand new behavior. However, he's been trained to retrieve, he has learned how to learn ever since he was a puppy and he's quite the intelligent dog. So he knew related tasks and it was easy for him to put that together.

Endless clicking and interruptions? This can only come from someone that doesn't know how shaping works. He couldn't perform the task because he didn't know it. This is what it looks like. This is how a dog learns through shaping. You should really do some research on shaping and how dogs learn through shaping before making assumptions. Also it'll open an entire new universe of how to train dogs.

Don't knock it, just because you don't know it.