King James Version Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

King James Version Matthew 25:34-36
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Salvation you receive from God as a gift but the kingdom of God you have to earn by your deeds and not only that but spending your money to feed, give drink, to dress, etc...To any human being who needs your help.


King James Version Hebrews 12:16-17
Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

King James Version Ephesians 5:5
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

From these scriptures it is obvious/clear of understanding in the letter to Hebrews and Ephesians, we see that the (fornication) or a "fornicated person" will not have an inheritance in the kingdom of God.

King James Version Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

And in Corinthians church - sinner had to be betray or deliver to Satan in so doing this in order for this human-being to be saved.

King James Version Revelation 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

King James Version Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

King James Version Matthew 18:3
And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

King James Version Matthew 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

King James Version Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

And so without sorrows you wouldn't able to enter the kingdom of God.

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The logic here is that NOT every person who is already saved will enter the kingdom of God. You can have a living faith in salvation and at the same time have a DEAD FAITH IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD. Because salvation in faith has their own deeds and salvation in Kingdom also has their own deeds and you could have deeds for salvation but may not have deeds to enter the kingdom of God. This is what David Wilkerson was saying in my video and Ruger1 does NOT agree with him.

Headless chicken.

ggturner wrote: Maybe this video will help those who struggle with the concept of unconditional election.  The speaker is Dr. R.C. Sproul:  ​ http://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/what_is_reformed_theology/unconditional-election/


Great video!, but I would like to remind you that you cannot be saved always be saved, sometimes God can change his plans; here is good example!
Predestination is indeed the will of God, which determines a person's behavior and everything that is happening in the world. Foreknowledge contained in predestination. Creation of the humans/people was and is the will of God in his predestination. However, according to the foreknowledge of God, he knew there future before there creation. God can change his intentions for anybody and as well to any nation in there relations to God. And indeed so everything is well-known to God in advance, intentions that people have and will have and God can/could change his decision. An example of this in Exodus chapter 32 verses 9 - 14 when God wanted to destroy all of them with exception of Moses. But then God had changed his plans after talking to Moses, which is God has abandon his intentions.

Exodus Chapter 32

9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?
12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.
13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.
14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

GSDguy..

Jeremiah 17 :9 Is a clear example of the condition of the heart,,

The great commission is preached to all because that is the way God wanted it,,God uses the message of the Gospel to save and we can not know who and when He will choose to save so we preach to all everywhere,,

Psalm 51:5 lol,,really where does it say that?..

Ephesians 2: 2-3  typo I meant Ephesians 2:4

Romans 5 12-19  Yes, I believe it does say that clearly in v 13.....Romans 5 17-18  by one man, meaning Adam, death regned..and by Christ we have life..Very simple concept IMO..Yes, the Bible does clearly teach inherited sin ...
 
Mathew 18:3 Read verse 4  The word is humble like a child, not sinless like a child..

You better explain this comment.".​If all are born sinful, then Jesus is a fraud, His sacrifice is worthless, "  Are you dense??..Jesus is not born sinful I never said that!!...Jesus is God..Get a grip..lol..

Mary was not concieved miraculously, she was as any other human,,

I will not change my postion on inhedited sin..All humans are born with it even Mary ...Jesus being God was not...A simple reading of God's Word should makes all of this obvious..


The context of the Jermeiah passage is still not saying man was born a sinner.  
The passage in Psalm 51:5 is talking about what I stated if you look at the context.  By all means it is.  It was a Psalm written by David, after David laid with Bathsheba.  So consider the context for one, consider the first four verses David is sorrowful, and pleaing to God in one sense for what he did, he recognizes his sin.  The fifth verse within that context would be about the child they brought forth (not Solomon), because of that sin.  In iniquity (which would have been the fornication) they conceived that child. We see the consequence as well though because of David's sin (we know he not only laid with Bathsheba, but he also made it where Uriah, Bathsheba's husband; would be killed in battle) that the child did not live.  So by the logic of Calvinism, that baby, was born a sinner, and died a sinner, and went to hell.  Such teaching is flat out fallacy!  

Also if children are born sinners, can you explain Deuteronomy 1:39?   If children are born sinners, please explain the Ezekiel passage that I mentioned.  You never stated anything about Ezekiel 18.  If children are born sinners then why in Genesis 4:6-7 does it say "Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it".  It never anywhere states that Cain was born a sinner.  In this text we do at least see where sin is "crouching at the door", we realize that he could sin in this text, but the Lord tells him he must master it.

Interesting how you all of a sudden changed the Ephesians passage to verse 4 saying you didn't type it right.  That truly does not help your position. The context I mentioned on verses 1-3 was correct.  Verse 4 has absolutely nothing to do with being born a sinner...... "But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us". You might try to use verse 5 to go with it, but still this is all speaking about before they obeyed the Gospel.

I will agree after another reading of the Matthew account about the children.

As to the thing "I'd better explain".  The point was, if every single person is born a sinner, then Jesus would be born a sinner.  You claim He was God....Sure, He was, but if He was not part human (on earth) sins would be no real temptation for Him;  The crucifixion would not have hurt him. Not if He was just....God.    We realize for one how he was being made in the likeness of men (Philip 2:7b). We realize He faced temptations that we face, He would have felt as we felt, physically and emotionally.  Your claim was that everyone is born a sinner....so by that considering Jesus came in the flesh and was part human as well while on earth.......Many who teach Calvinistic ideas try numerous different ways to get around that.  But, at least you recognize He wasn't, and don't hold to those non biblical explanations.

GSD_Admin wrote: Headless chicken.






Ruger1 wrote: Disagreement is to be expected,, It will all work out..

Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult.
Whoever rebukes a wicked person incurs abuse.
Do not rebuke a mocker or they will hate you.
Rebuke a wise  person and they will love you.
Prov.9:7-8

   gouda

Gouda,

What about verse 9.
Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
 

Thats true Shtal, but I was just addressing the God mockers here.

  Your brother in Christ

    gouda

Who is mocking God? IMO, it is you 2 who are being mocked, go to a religious forum and I bet you both get your butts handed to you, what you think brother in Christ? In Christ sounds a little well, happy.

I always thought it was "original" sin. Which has to be a different meaning than "born sinners". Hmmm. I mean, you guys split hairs with everything else!