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by Slamdunc on 03 June 2011 - 21:06
Hans,
You really do not get it. For those of us that love GSD's we can not tolerate those that abuse, kill them or let them suffer. Not to mention what she did to her own mother. To see evil and associate with it and allow its presence simply because it is intelligent is unconscionable. To argue that she has not done anything wrong on your forum baffles me. Obviously, we are very different people with different values. Enjoy your interesting conversations with Janice on "reversed mask dogs.". If we ever meet in person again I will tell you how I really feel. Out of the respect I had for you I won't express what I would say to you here. I am very disappointed with you.
Jim
You really do not get it. For those of us that love GSD's we can not tolerate those that abuse, kill them or let them suffer. Not to mention what she did to her own mother. To see evil and associate with it and allow its presence simply because it is intelligent is unconscionable. To argue that she has not done anything wrong on your forum baffles me. Obviously, we are very different people with different values. Enjoy your interesting conversations with Janice on "reversed mask dogs.". If we ever meet in person again I will tell you how I really feel. Out of the respect I had for you I won't express what I would say to you here. I am very disappointed with you.
Jim
by hexe on 03 June 2011 - 21:06
Hans, you said:
"I most definitely do not associate and agree with people who have interest in abuse, but I do not see harm in letting them speak and to listen to them."
Perhaps I can assist you in seeing the harm, then. You mentioned in passing that it's not unusual to hear a mother say of her child, "He/she is so smart", and wondered if there wasn't possibly a connection between intelligence and evil.
Yes, there IS a correlation between the two. There is also a correlation between psychopathy and the ability to be persuasive and charming--the acts Janice Bartmess has been convicted of already, along with those she is presently charged with, are those of a psychopath, and like all others of that ilk she, too, can be quite persuasive and wields her intelligence as a weapon. THAT is the harm of letting evil speak--evil has a cunning tongue, and too easily enchants a segment of the listeners who are naivé, as well as those who believe they see an opportunity to profit. You shuddered when Sue mentioned Mengele, as do others; but we know that without the phenomenon of the effect Hitler's speeches had on the masses, Mengele could not have committed the atrocities he had dreamed up--so it is with Janice Bartmess. Provide her with a haven from which she can lure in others with her vast store of knowledge--no one here has ever denied that she is near to a savant when it comes to what she can recall when it comes to dogs--and you are providing her with her next 'partners', the ones who will unwittingly supply her with new dogs again after the heat dies down from this latest arrest and prosecution.
THAT is the harm of letting her speak and listening to her. If you swallow a diamond that's enrobed in poison, the poison will kill you despite the fact your stomach contains something priceless. Janice's knowledge is wrapped in the poison that is her psychosis, and I don't think others should suffer or die just so they can access the diamond.
"I most definitely do not associate and agree with people who have interest in abuse, but I do not see harm in letting them speak and to listen to them."
Perhaps I can assist you in seeing the harm, then. You mentioned in passing that it's not unusual to hear a mother say of her child, "He/she is so smart", and wondered if there wasn't possibly a connection between intelligence and evil.
Yes, there IS a correlation between the two. There is also a correlation between psychopathy and the ability to be persuasive and charming--the acts Janice Bartmess has been convicted of already, along with those she is presently charged with, are those of a psychopath, and like all others of that ilk she, too, can be quite persuasive and wields her intelligence as a weapon. THAT is the harm of letting evil speak--evil has a cunning tongue, and too easily enchants a segment of the listeners who are naivé, as well as those who believe they see an opportunity to profit. You shuddered when Sue mentioned Mengele, as do others; but we know that without the phenomenon of the effect Hitler's speeches had on the masses, Mengele could not have committed the atrocities he had dreamed up--so it is with Janice Bartmess. Provide her with a haven from which she can lure in others with her vast store of knowledge--no one here has ever denied that she is near to a savant when it comes to what she can recall when it comes to dogs--and you are providing her with her next 'partners', the ones who will unwittingly supply her with new dogs again after the heat dies down from this latest arrest and prosecution.
THAT is the harm of letting her speak and listening to her. If you swallow a diamond that's enrobed in poison, the poison will kill you despite the fact your stomach contains something priceless. Janice's knowledge is wrapped in the poison that is her psychosis, and I don't think others should suffer or die just so they can access the diamond.
by Bhaugh on 03 June 2011 - 21:06
I find this thread interesting at best for two reasons:
1. When I asked about this case some time ago, I was hung up by my toes and pm'd mean and spiteful messages. I guess others thought I was associated with this woman when in fact I wasn't. Guilty before anyone had the facts as to why I would dare to post on the forum over it.
2. Although I respect you Hans for your life working with dogs, Im having a hard time reading your comments talking about free speech because when I posted on your forum over a mod issue it was it was suggested I change what I wrote. When I told you I wouldnt, you changed it to appease the mods from this site. To be fair, I told you all was good but really it wasnt and I should have said this.
I think allowing this woman to have a forum of ANY TYPE no matter what her experience is wrong. She gave up the right to voice her opinion when she committed horrible acts against the dogs she claims she knows so much about. By allowing her a voice says we forgive her for what she did and I'm sorry I don't. If she was sorry for what she did, then be proud and post as who she really is. Since she isn't then I guess she really isn't sorry at all.
I agree with Slamdunc: ALOT of people tried to get her off here (myself included) before the mods came to be. I'm very glad the site is better but it was what it was. Mod don't defend the lack of response from the site now after the fact.
1. When I asked about this case some time ago, I was hung up by my toes and pm'd mean and spiteful messages. I guess others thought I was associated with this woman when in fact I wasn't. Guilty before anyone had the facts as to why I would dare to post on the forum over it.
2. Although I respect you Hans for your life working with dogs, Im having a hard time reading your comments talking about free speech because when I posted on your forum over a mod issue it was it was suggested I change what I wrote. When I told you I wouldnt, you changed it to appease the mods from this site. To be fair, I told you all was good but really it wasnt and I should have said this.
I think allowing this woman to have a forum of ANY TYPE no matter what her experience is wrong. She gave up the right to voice her opinion when she committed horrible acts against the dogs she claims she knows so much about. By allowing her a voice says we forgive her for what she did and I'm sorry I don't. If she was sorry for what she did, then be proud and post as who she really is. Since she isn't then I guess she really isn't sorry at all.
I agree with Slamdunc: ALOT of people tried to get her off here (myself included) before the mods came to be. I'm very glad the site is better but it was what it was. Mod don't defend the lack of response from the site now after the fact.
by mobjack on 03 June 2011 - 21:06
Hans, While I can understand your point I do not agree with it. I am very sorry, but no, you just do not get the point others here are trying to make.
Janice had lord only knows how many dogs die in "kennel fire caused by a lightning strike". Anyone REALLY believe this story of hers?
May 1999
Veterinarians in Carson are working to save 64 German shepherds that were living in squalid conditions at the Gardena kennel. Most of the animals were kept in tiny crates that were filled with excrement. "They couldn't move around for exercise. Three was no food or water in most of the cages. Inside the living room of the house was a female German shepherd with five little puppies in one of those carriers." An emaciated German shepherd was found in the front yard, the dog was in a small dog carrier. The animal was so ill that veterinarians had to euthanize it. They then found dogs in the backyard and in the garage living in horrible, filthy conditions. "The ground was covered with feces over a foot high in some places." According to court records, on July 18, 2000, Gregory and Janice Bartlett each pleaded guilty to one of eight counts of violating Penal Code Section 597t, mistreatment of a confined animal, a misdemeanor. 30 counts of cruelty to an animal were dismissed as part of the plea agreement. On October 19, 2000, they were each sentenced to one day in jail, and a $200.00 restitution fine. Both were placed on 3 years' formal probation and prohibited from owning animals during that period.
March 2011
Hawthorne couple Gregory and Janice Bartmess, both 60-years-old, were arrested Saturday March on suspicion of elder abuse and animal neglect after police found 13 dogs in varying states of neglect and Janice Bartmess' unresponsive mother at their home, reports ABC Local. Responding to a tip, officers went to the house where they found rotting food and animal feces reportedly covering the floors. After rounding up the dogs, officers then discovered Janice Bartmess' 86-year-old mother bed-ridden and unresponsive in the unsanitary conditions. The victim, who was not identified, was found in bed Friday afternoon, suffering from open sores and atrophy and wearing clothing soiled with feces and urine, said Lt. Gary Tomatani of the Hawthorne Police Department. When they arrived, officers found "extremely unsanitary conditions," according to a police statement. Trash was piled in front of the home, and large amounts of animal feces had been covered with cut grass or hay near the door. An odor of spoiled or rotting food emanated from the home, officials said. Officers found the woman in a bedroom, extremely unkempt. Containers of spoiled food and animal feces were strewn all over the floor, officials said. Animal control officers took 13 dogs into custody, all of them in various stages of neglect. Some of the dogs were living in cramped crates, and others were tethered in rooms of the home.
Yes Hans, keep Janice on your forum. That is your right and you say she has done nothing wrong there and broken none of your rules. But tell me this one thing, while you grant her the right to speak, who speaks for the dogs? or her mother? They are our friends and companions. Many of us depend on them, the military, law enforcement, disabled people. Can you honestly look at your own dog and wish them a life with Janice Bartmess? I can not. I know Jim, Sue, Jackie, Beetree and many, many others here could not. Understand Hans, that given the chance Janice WILL do this again. It takes only ONE person.
Janice had lord only knows how many dogs die in "kennel fire caused by a lightning strike". Anyone REALLY believe this story of hers?
May 1999
Veterinarians in Carson are working to save 64 German shepherds that were living in squalid conditions at the Gardena kennel. Most of the animals were kept in tiny crates that were filled with excrement. "They couldn't move around for exercise. Three was no food or water in most of the cages. Inside the living room of the house was a female German shepherd with five little puppies in one of those carriers." An emaciated German shepherd was found in the front yard, the dog was in a small dog carrier. The animal was so ill that veterinarians had to euthanize it. They then found dogs in the backyard and in the garage living in horrible, filthy conditions. "The ground was covered with feces over a foot high in some places." According to court records, on July 18, 2000, Gregory and Janice Bartlett each pleaded guilty to one of eight counts of violating Penal Code Section 597t, mistreatment of a confined animal, a misdemeanor. 30 counts of cruelty to an animal were dismissed as part of the plea agreement. On October 19, 2000, they were each sentenced to one day in jail, and a $200.00 restitution fine. Both were placed on 3 years' formal probation and prohibited from owning animals during that period.
March 2011
Hawthorne couple Gregory and Janice Bartmess, both 60-years-old, were arrested Saturday March on suspicion of elder abuse and animal neglect after police found 13 dogs in varying states of neglect and Janice Bartmess' unresponsive mother at their home, reports ABC Local. Responding to a tip, officers went to the house where they found rotting food and animal feces reportedly covering the floors. After rounding up the dogs, officers then discovered Janice Bartmess' 86-year-old mother bed-ridden and unresponsive in the unsanitary conditions. The victim, who was not identified, was found in bed Friday afternoon, suffering from open sores and atrophy and wearing clothing soiled with feces and urine, said Lt. Gary Tomatani of the Hawthorne Police Department. When they arrived, officers found "extremely unsanitary conditions," according to a police statement. Trash was piled in front of the home, and large amounts of animal feces had been covered with cut grass or hay near the door. An odor of spoiled or rotting food emanated from the home, officials said. Officers found the woman in a bedroom, extremely unkempt. Containers of spoiled food and animal feces were strewn all over the floor, officials said. Animal control officers took 13 dogs into custody, all of them in various stages of neglect. Some of the dogs were living in cramped crates, and others were tethered in rooms of the home.
Yes Hans, keep Janice on your forum. That is your right and you say she has done nothing wrong there and broken none of your rules. But tell me this one thing, while you grant her the right to speak, who speaks for the dogs? or her mother? They are our friends and companions. Many of us depend on them, the military, law enforcement, disabled people. Can you honestly look at your own dog and wish them a life with Janice Bartmess? I can not. I know Jim, Sue, Jackie, Beetree and many, many others here could not. Understand Hans, that given the chance Janice WILL do this again. It takes only ONE person.
by mobjack on 03 June 2011 - 21:06
Intelligence does not equate to a concience.
by mollyandjack on 03 June 2011 - 21:06
All I can say is that it makes me physically sick to read her posts. I'm not even really making a statement or taking a stand by not going to this or that forum...I am simply repulsed by her presence.
by Mystere on 03 June 2011 - 22:06
I just want to mention this, and then I am done with this thread, as it has been made abundantly clear that "some" don't get it at all, about a variety of things, it appears.
Sociopaths, by definition, have NO conscience. They are able to drape themselves in the societally acceptable form, but lack any connection to the substance behind it. IOW, they know how and when to fake a smile, or utilize a sympathetic phrase. However, they have none of the feeling or substance behind those social gestures. It is all fake. That is how they are able to con people into giving up their money... or drinking the Kool-aide.
Most of the serial killers who have been captured and studied are/were sociopaths with higer than average intelligence. Intelligence coupled with evil simply means that the individual
(1) Will engage in evil on a larger and more horrifying scale than the more intellectually challenged, and
(2) Will be able to avoid discovery or capture longer and better than a dumb miscreant would, and
(3) Once discovered, will cause astonishment that such an intelligent person could engage in such barbaric behavior. People tend to expect it of stupid people, apparently.
I understand Hans' point about keeping tabs on the enemy. I make a point of occasionally visiting neo-nazi and other racists sites, just to keep up with what they are up to. It is the same reason f taht I tune into televangelists from time to time. Ditto for some of the Al-Queda sites in English or French--I like to know what the enemy is doing. Janice Bartmess is hardly on that scale, though. Containment is all that is required to deal with her.
Sociopaths, by definition, have NO conscience. They are able to drape themselves in the societally acceptable form, but lack any connection to the substance behind it. IOW, they know how and when to fake a smile, or utilize a sympathetic phrase. However, they have none of the feeling or substance behind those social gestures. It is all fake. That is how they are able to con people into giving up their money... or drinking the Kool-aide.
Most of the serial killers who have been captured and studied are/were sociopaths with higer than average intelligence. Intelligence coupled with evil simply means that the individual
(1) Will engage in evil on a larger and more horrifying scale than the more intellectually challenged, and
(2) Will be able to avoid discovery or capture longer and better than a dumb miscreant would, and
(3) Once discovered, will cause astonishment that such an intelligent person could engage in such barbaric behavior. People tend to expect it of stupid people, apparently.
I understand Hans' point about keeping tabs on the enemy. I make a point of occasionally visiting neo-nazi and other racists sites, just to keep up with what they are up to. It is the same reason f taht I tune into televangelists from time to time. Ditto for some of the Al-Queda sites in English or French--I like to know what the enemy is doing. Janice Bartmess is hardly on that scale, though. Containment is all that is required to deal with her.
by Ninja181 on 03 June 2011 - 22:06
Question:
Who was the first person on this forum to point out Janice Bartmess, and her abuse?
Who was the first person on this forum to point out Janice Bartmess, and her abuse?
by Slamdunc on 03 June 2011 - 22:06
Ninja,
If memory serves me correctly that would have been Hodie. Hodie was another big part of exposing Janice Bartmess for the convicted animal abuser she is.
Jim
by Red Sable on 03 June 2011 - 22:06
I think it was Hodie too, btw, where is she? Haven't seen or heard from her on here for a long time.
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