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by Micaho on 06 February 2013 - 17:02
I would say Obamacare is a done deal, except I can't see 27 Governors from diverse political bases, all agreeing to give up the money and tiny bit of control they would have if they created their own exchanges, if they didn't believe it would make a difference. These are not just a few radicals anymore. Another indicator of problems is that, apparently, HHUS has so far only approved of 2 of the plans, those submitted by New York and Kentucky, while other plans need to be re-worked. Again, not promising. Apparently the states are complaining that after initial subsidies and input, they will have to fund the entire exchange program while the Feds make all the decisions. Not a great deal for them.
Additionally, "CBO originally estimated the[Affordable Care] legislation will reduce the number of uninsured residents by 30 million, leaving 25 million uninsured residents in 2019 after the bill's provisions have all taken effect... A July 2012 CBO estimate raised the expected number of uninsured by 3 million, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Change_in_number_of_uninsured)
So even with all this effort, half of the original number of uninsured will remain uninsured. What a waste.
Additionally, "CBO originally estimated the[Affordable Care] legislation will reduce the number of uninsured residents by 30 million, leaving 25 million uninsured residents in 2019 after the bill's provisions have all taken effect... A July 2012 CBO estimate raised the expected number of uninsured by 3 million, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Change_in_number_of_uninsured)
So even with all this effort, half of the original number of uninsured will remain uninsured. What a waste.
by keepthefaith on 06 February 2013 - 19:02
Here is an interesting article on the challenges facing Obamacare and the creation of state exchanges. There are conflicting legal opinions on how all of this will unwind but what is certain is that there will be mass confusion all around.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/healthcare/if-states-don-t-set-up-insurance-exchanges-will-obamacare-implode--20121130
Apart from the article some of the readers comments are interesting.
Also, there is an interesting discussion whether Obamacare will end up resulting in some of those who are currently insured assessing whether it is worthwhile dropping or reducing their coverage since they can always get insurance down the line if their health deteriorates given that insurers cannot deny coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=001819
All in all, given that Obamacare is one of the largest expansions of governmental involvement the US government has taken on in decades, it is quite stunning how poorly thought through the entire legislation has turned out to be in just about every facet from costs to administration to healthcare delivery.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/healthcare/if-states-don-t-set-up-insurance-exchanges-will-obamacare-implode--20121130
Apart from the article some of the readers comments are interesting.
Also, there is an interesting discussion whether Obamacare will end up resulting in some of those who are currently insured assessing whether it is worthwhile dropping or reducing their coverage since they can always get insurance down the line if their health deteriorates given that insurers cannot deny coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=001819
All in all, given that Obamacare is one of the largest expansions of governmental involvement the US government has taken on in decades, it is quite stunning how poorly thought through the entire legislation has turned out to be in just about every facet from costs to administration to healthcare delivery.
by Micaho on 07 February 2013 - 21:02
Excellent articles, keepthefaith! It shows once again that it would pay for Congress to not only read, but think through laws before they pass them. especially when attempting to take over 16% of the US economy.
by LadyFrost on 08 February 2013 - 12:02
has anyone noticed that on their tax papers mailed from employers they are showing how much your company contributed in health insurance to your "account"....does anyone thinks that somewhere down the line we may have to pay the tax on that too???
by Micaho on 08 February 2013 - 16:02
I would guess you're right, LadyFrost. They've been talking about taxing employee benefits for quite some time. With the costs of implementing Obamacare, this would be a way to offset some of that expense.
by keepthefaith on 08 February 2013 - 16:02
Micaho, it is fairly well known that most legislation passed is rarely studied or even read by the legislators. At one time there were sub-committee and committee hearings to evaluate the pros and cons of proposed legislation ......... this has pretty much gone by the wayside or to the extent that it occurs, it is by no means anything comprehensive.
The unique thing as you pointed out with regard to Obamacare is that the legislation impacts a substantial portion of the GDP of the US. It is a travesty that multiple ramifications were never examined thoroughly before the legislation was crafted. We will be living with the consequences of this for years to come. Like I said in my original post, there are not the primary care physicians to provide care to the 30 million uninsured that will come into the system especially in some areas of the country. There are two physicians in my immediate family - neither are primary care doctors - and they say it is something that is widely known and discussed within the medical profession.
I personally worked for the best part of 30 years in the healthcare industry on the administrative side ....... and so I am, hopefully, somewhat informed about this area.
There is little or nothing within the legislation to enhance competition. Basically to get the support of the different interest groups, the Obama administration had to give away the store. The insurance industry has been gifted 30 million new customers as has the pharmaceutical industry as well as hospitals and physicians.
As I said previously, the goal was laudable - namely to provide healthcare for all Americans - but rather than phase it in with perhaps children covered first and then other segments of the uninsured population, they went whole hog.
Medicare when it was enacted in 1965 was projected to cost a fraction of what it costs today ......... and you can be sure that Obamacare down the line will also cost a whole lot more than current projections.
And there is more to come ......... if 12-20 million illegals are given legal status ........ they will also need to be covered including an unknown number of those who have or will have contributed little or nothing to the Medicare trust fund but will also become eligible for the program. Keep in mind that the Medicare program is already in financial trouble.
I agree with you that down the line, the value of health benefits provided by employers will also end up being taxed in some form or the other.
The unique thing as you pointed out with regard to Obamacare is that the legislation impacts a substantial portion of the GDP of the US. It is a travesty that multiple ramifications were never examined thoroughly before the legislation was crafted. We will be living with the consequences of this for years to come. Like I said in my original post, there are not the primary care physicians to provide care to the 30 million uninsured that will come into the system especially in some areas of the country. There are two physicians in my immediate family - neither are primary care doctors - and they say it is something that is widely known and discussed within the medical profession.
I personally worked for the best part of 30 years in the healthcare industry on the administrative side ....... and so I am, hopefully, somewhat informed about this area.
There is little or nothing within the legislation to enhance competition. Basically to get the support of the different interest groups, the Obama administration had to give away the store. The insurance industry has been gifted 30 million new customers as has the pharmaceutical industry as well as hospitals and physicians.
As I said previously, the goal was laudable - namely to provide healthcare for all Americans - but rather than phase it in with perhaps children covered first and then other segments of the uninsured population, they went whole hog.
Medicare when it was enacted in 1965 was projected to cost a fraction of what it costs today ......... and you can be sure that Obamacare down the line will also cost a whole lot more than current projections.
And there is more to come ......... if 12-20 million illegals are given legal status ........ they will also need to be covered including an unknown number of those who have or will have contributed little or nothing to the Medicare trust fund but will also become eligible for the program. Keep in mind that the Medicare program is already in financial trouble.
I agree with you that down the line, the value of health benefits provided by employers will also end up being taxed in some form or the other.
by leeshideaway on 08 February 2013 - 17:02
by Two Moons on 08 February 2013 - 19:02
The two biggest problems with health care legislation is,
I doesn't address the real problem of cost,
and it is forcing Americans to purchase something they may not want or even need.
What's next?
What can our government make us buy next?
It's going to cost more than anyone will admit too in the long run.
I doesn't address the real problem of cost,
and it is forcing Americans to purchase something they may not want or even need.
What's next?
What can our government make us buy next?
It's going to cost more than anyone will admit too in the long run.
by Micaho on 08 February 2013 - 20:02
" I have no intention of obeying the law and will do what I can to bring it down. I'm a sole proprietor, who buy his own insurance. When, in 2014, the provision that says I cannot be denied insurance for preexisting conditions, I will drop my insurance until/unless I get sick enough to need it. I also understand that the only "penalty" the IRS can impose is to take it out of my refund. No problem! I will slightly underpay my estimated taxes to ensure that I don't get a refund. I am quire sure that any penalty I am assessed for the underpayment will be less than the Obamacare penalty - and in any case, that penalty will not be used to pay for Obamacare.".
This is taken from the NationalJournal.com post from keepthefaith above. I don't think the absence of a refund means the government can't collect a penalty. Does anyone know if this is true?
This is taken from the NationalJournal.com post from keepthefaith above. I don't think the absence of a refund means the government can't collect a penalty. Does anyone know if this is true?
by keepthefaith on 09 February 2013 - 02:02
Re: "I don't think the absence of a refund means the government can't collect a penalty. Does anyone know if this is true?"
An excerpt:
"The tax penalty will be collected by the IRS and extracted from any income tax refund due. The legislation, however, ties the IRS’ hands in using its normal collection tactics, such as liens, levies, and criminal penalties."
According to this link:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gracemarieturner/2012/07/24/how-much-is-the-obamacare-mandate-going-to-cost-you/
An excerpt:
"The tax penalty will be collected by the IRS and extracted from any income tax refund due. The legislation, however, ties the IRS’ hands in using its normal collection tactics, such as liens, levies, and criminal penalties."
According to this link:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gracemarieturner/2012/07/24/how-much-is-the-obamacare-mandate-going-to-cost-you/
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