RADDOG - training short sleeve R1 - Page 4

then either you're not seeing the flex in the spine at the neck or you don't think it's a problem for a dog to whip its body in a 180 degree arc around its head, because it's there in that video as well.

BZCZ  yes I see it but why would that be different then normal sleeve. Do you think that is is the halper doing it rather then the sleeve. I am not shure. It would be interesting to see same helper using regular sleeve. 

Look here at this video with regular sleeve for comparison. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9a2vGMl7pM

 BTW I am not disagreeing wioth you. I am just trying to  see what is really going on. 

I have posted this video . Same type of sleeve . look at 2:00 timet . There is not same twisting as at  the OP video thus I think  it is not the sleeve but the helper. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7DAuXLfAbo

Here I see quite a twist again  if you stop it at timer 0:04....I do not know..... BZCZ may have a point.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKJ9WSQp770

Pragar,

First video you listed helper is very slightly late in his catch, the dog compresses a little bit in the neck,  However he has a terrible habit of "opening up".  What I mean by that is that he doesn't hold the sleeve at the level of the catch.  He opens up his shoulder and elbow angles to a greater angle and he drops the hand in the sleeve down to the ground which makes the sleeve go 90 degree twist down and yes I agree, it's hard on the dog's body as well.

 

2nd video has the same type of twisting motion, just not as extreme.  The dog reaches right at the catch and has an almot 90 deg angle.  Then his body whips around his head so that the dog is effectively looking left as his body comes all the way down to the ground.  This all at the 2:00 min catch.  It is caused by, I believe, the half sleeve being too far off of the helpers body and the helper moving early so the dog has to reach over to get the half sleeve because it is no longer in front of him.  then he whips his body around his head because the sleeve becomes a pivot and it's not stable enough with just a hand grip on it.  So the dog's body does a 180 degree (roughly) movement around his head in a half a second.  Too fast, too much pull on the joints (his whole body is pulling on his neck vertebrae) and too much movement.  Try whipping your head around shoulder to shoulder fast.  Now imagine your body doing that to your head.

I think it's going to injure some dogs.  I agree if they put the half sleeve on and use it like a sleeve, I don't see the problem then.

Last video, the helper isn't as good as the others and the dog isn't as fast (he's just a lil guy) so I'm not sure we can use that one to compare.

 

So far all the negative has been due to helper error. With as many dogs the Glisnik works every week I'm sure they would have seen any adverse effects and stopped using it long ago. Particularly since they've been using it for the last 4 or 5yrs.