RADDOG - training short sleeve R1 - Page 1

One of the worst ideas ever.

Are you donating part of your sales to a fund to pay for the spinal injuries that are going to occur using this "half sleeve"?

Bodies are whipping around the head, the axis is not straight as it should be.  The techniques using this sleeve for a "prey" catch is going to damage necks and spines.

It's a fad to stay away from.

 

So basically it is a sleeve just for forearm. I do not see any difference from regular sleeve since dog bites only on forearm anyway. The upper part f regular sleeve is there only for protection of the helper. The flappy part of the sleeve assumes the function of the upper part  of the arm. What ever. It is cheaper. One benefit I see is that it i easier / faster to put it on. I would not mind to try it. I do not like sleeves with bar. So personally that is turn off for me. I do not think that it will hurt the dogs neck any more then regular sleeve. I do not see how. That is unless I am missing something. 

http://www.raddog.cz/obrana-zkracene-rukavy_c5.html

 Prager Hans

PS another minute of that music and I would get seizures. 

Lol. On the seizures.

I've been a national level helper for years.  Watch the dogs heads and their spines in relation to each other.  

On a full sleeve catch, the helper steps back a n d makes the alley for the dog to come thru. That keeps the dogs body in one line with its spine. On that half sleeve the p dogs body whips back  and forth.  It should not whip around their head like they are.

You want the dogs body pulling in as straight a line as possible.  The canine chiropractors say this protects the spine as much as possible. Think about it. Hang by your head and shake your body around it. Good way to damage the discs by allowing uncontrolled flex in the joints with excessive twisting of the body  around the head while airborne with momentum.

These are a bit easier to use than a full sleeve, but I still just use a pillow when I'm at that phase and a sleeve when I get to it.  I don't think the sleeve makes any difference how you catch a dog, it's just how you catch them.  Anytime a dog is oriented with his nose pointing one way and his bunghole facing the other and after impact he will eventually be have the nose and bunghole flipflopped in terms of orientation, there's going to be a bit of a transitional period in the spine.  

How severe that transition of forces and orientation is, of course dependson the the dog and the helper.  But dogs are caught safely on pillows and people also don't do a good job with those.  Just as some catches are much more smooth on sleeves than what others do.  Those guys that are just standing there and holding it with one hand to the inside of their body on what would be the "sleeve" side and seem a bit lazy in their catches arne't doing the dogs any favors.  They don't aborb much of those transitional forces at all and the neck and body do twist and snap around a lot.  But I think that has more to do with being lazy than anything.

I agree 100% zdog.  The helpers who use it like a sleeve will protect the dogs necks and spines.  The problem is that the sleeve is being promoted as able to use one handed as a viable technique.  Look in the video how the dogs head is cranked left (over 90 degrees) at the catch and then ends up with his body cranked over 90 degrees to the right during the catch.  Anyone care to do the physics calculation for how much torque that dog has to absorb through his spine on a good catch?  Now add in the acceleration of the whip of his body around its neck and it becomes a multiple (2x, 3x) the original force. 

Look up how a whiplash injury occurs and compare that to what you see on the video.

It's asking too much of the discs and the vertebrae.  It is going to injure and cripple some dogs, especially over time as they do the reps.

 

 

Since some of you feel so strongly about this sleeve and the work in the video, maybe you can post a video of your work to give us all a better idea of what you are talking about.

I have watched over 30 of Deni's videos, and he uses his real name. I have never seen any videos of your  folks work (Hans excluded) or know your actual name. As a National Level Helper for years you must have some videos to post?

Maybe you can provide the same courtesy to the rest of us? I am being sincere....not attacking anyone.

Thanks

Kim

 

Great work as always Deni!

well if you're talking to me, I commented and did not watch any video :)  just going by what I have experienced.  But since i'm not sure if I was called out on anything, i decided to go back and watch it.  I don't even need to post a video, just use the one posted to illustrate what i was talking about.  When held one hand, cocked in the dog is seriously torqued.  later in the vide when held more like a traditional sleeve, much more smooth.

that's what my eyes see.  I don't care if anybody knows who I am, or cares.  Maybe i've never even trained a dog, it's just the internet.  Watch catches around 1:20 , give or take, and the one at 1:26.  Anyone else see a difference?

I don't recall you saying that......... you were a National Level Helper, so I was not speaking to you.

Having said that, maybe people could take a second and read each others post before jumping to conclusions.

Just saying........

 

Kim

 

I did read that and then you referenced "folks" which I took to meant you were talking g about multiple people. Considering only yourself , Hans ( whom you singled out as ok) bczc and myself. There weren't many options to consider when trying to figure out who exactly you mean by "folks"