What makes a - Page 1

Considering the perpetual hoo-ha of working line vs. showline that crops up on the board, I thought it useful to brush up on the actual definition of "show" dog.  Sound obvious to you?  Great!  Then please explain.

It's clear that a "show" dog cannot be defined just as a dog that earns V conformation and kkl1, because there are many workingline dogs that earn these ratings.

Furthermore, earning a V or VA at a Sieger Show cannot be the exclusive definition of "show" dog either because there are many "show" dogs that get only SG.

So what makes a show dog a show dog?

Is it appearance?  Males must be black and red?  Females must be black and red with "bitch stripe"?

Is it the purpose for which the dog is bred, i.e. the goals of the breeder's program?

Or, the purpose for which the dog is trainined and used, i.e. the goals of the handler?

Is it the bloodlines?  (hence the term showLINE dog)  If so, then where is "the list" of "show" kennels?  What if a dog only has Canto/Quanto in 4th gen?  How many "show" dogs must be in the ped to make the dog a "showline" dog?

Does this sound like a facetious discussion?  Maybe... but then try to define what a "show" dog is in descriptive terms.  I think it's not as easy as it seems to put a finger on it and really nail down a concrete definition. 

Yvette

Great question. I don't think it's that easy to answer!

A show dog is a dog that has the correct combinations of good genetic background, physical characteristics, correct character, proper training, and an owner who is able to realize the greatness of his dog and is willing to do what it takes to train and campaign the dog.

I think if you lose any one of these things, the dog becomes less of a true "show" dog.

I think that you can say that dogs who possess a V or VA rating ARE show dogs... or at least that they have the potential to be show dogs. Even though there are "working-line" dogs that are V rated and KK1... if these dogs were campaigned at the same level that a lot of "show-line" dogs are, we would consider them "show" dogs too. Fortunately, I believe that there are few dogs that have the capability to be true working dogs AND show dogs.  What the owner chooses to emphasize is where the dog excels.

Whether a dog is a true "show" dog or not has a lot to do with what the owner does!  I know quite a few gorgeous show-line dogs that were spayed or neutered because the owner didn't want to show.  These dogs are nice show line dogs... but yet they are NOT show dogs. Same with working line dogs who only show once or twice to get a show rating.  These dogs could keep showing... but their owners have put the primary focus on working not showing.

"So what makes a show dog a show dog?".... the right judge!!!

This sounds like  a great joke.

My trainer refers to any showline dog as a show dog.  I can't say I agree with that 100% but find myself doing it too now!  But the dogs we see are pretty black/white in terms of the bloodlines and color.

Terrific question!!  For me it's the bloodlines.  Certain lines are clearly identified as "working" and others are  considered "show."  However, that being said, not all working line dogs work, and there are many exceptional working showline dogs.   I always think of a spectrum with most working and showline dogs falling somewhere in the middle area.  The extreme performance dogs will nearly always come from the working bloodlines, and (so far) the VA dogs will be from traditional showlines.  But there are a huge number of dogs that fall in that vague middle.   I'm not so sure it's the golden middle yet. 

I don't think you can assign attributes to them that are clear cut.  Again, you raise a great question.  I wish more people would take time to think this through rather than just make generalizations. 

What makes a "show" dog a "show" dog?

The quality and (sorry!) the quantity of its brain.

 One detail!

Saying "show" I mean the trotters, trotting at the dog shows for hours and unable to do anything else!

Wow Rus,

you must truly be one of the most successful breeders and trainers of workingline dogs. Can you share some of your accomplishments here with us?

Show dog or sport dog, the funny thing is that the people who cry the loudest (on both sides) are usually the ones which are only the armchair breeders, trainers and exhibitors! You won't hear these derogative statements from truly accomplished people!

Cheers to everyone in the sport and breed!

Chris

Very interesting question. Based on the opinions already provided I would say the answer is subjective at best. Seems it is open to each person's own interpretation. With that said, here is my interpretation.

I have dogs from show lines, that means they are black and red. My current dogs are not trained for the show ring, I have never spent hours training them to run the ring. They only get a bath when they need it, which isn't often. They are raised to be working dogs, trained as if they are working dogs, and expected to work as if they are working dogs. They go to club training weekly, we train on our own several times a week, and the compete in working dog trials. I breed my dogs with working ability as second to temperament and health. If they are pretty, that's a bonus.

My last litter of 8 pups, 7 were sold to working homes. 2 to train for herding, 3 to schutzhund, and 2 to Search and Rescue. The remaining pup is being evaluated shortly by  LE for detection. So, are these pups show dogs?

When asked, I tell people I have German show  line dogs that actually have jobs. To me that means they work. So if that is true, then to be considered a "SHOW" dog, I look at it as, the dog is trained for the ring (whether it wins or not, the owners intention is to show the dog).  The dog's owner spends more time worrying about the condition of the coat, the way the dog trots, the way the dog stacks, the dog doesn't continue to trial after it obtains a schutzhund title, but continues to run around in a ring.

To me, simply put, a SHOW Dog is Shown...whether he/she be of working lines or "show" lines.

If a ShowLINE dog is not currently being shown...I do not consider that a SHOW dog but, a showLINE dog meaning he/she comes from the line of dogs bred for complete correctness (confirmation, color, size, temperament, drives and working abilities...whatever the "Show" is intended to show off in these dogs and what makes them "breed-worthy".