Dutch Shepherd - fawn & other questions - Page 1

I have several questions concerning the Dutch Shepherd.

It is my understanding that in times past the Malinois & Dutch Shepherd were interbred (maybe the German Shepherd too). While I'm trying to research the breed I have found many who appear to be an authority on the breed yet their information doesn't agree with one another. So I'm trying to find out what is fact versus opinion. Which I hope is not impossible.

First is concerning color. I am accustomed to a variety of colors in the Dutch Shepherd but it's always brindle. Of recent I have encountered a couple of breeders with fawn Dutch Shepherd puppies. The parents are both brindles, maybe the gand-sire/dam & great grand sire/dam are brindles but the pup I'm looking at is fawn. Let's assume there is no fraud being committed (such as presenting one set of parents when it's really a Dutch/Mal cross). Let's assume this is all on the up & up. This puppy came from a long line of brindles. Is this a natural occurring color in the Dutch Shepherd breed? Is this a throw back to when the Malinois was inter-mixed into the breed?

That leads to my next question. I've been told in some countries the Mal & Dutch are interbred fairly often. Others tell me this is an old practice & should not be being done any longer. It's my understanding the KNVP has used mixed dogs for a long time & figure that's not likely to change. Could anyone answer what is correct & if multiple registries have differing ways of doing this, please tell me which ones are which? I know those registered with AKC are likely not allowed to do this but are there other registries who still do?

Thanks in advance for any information/insight you can offer.

The DS/Mal breeders I know wait until the pups are born and call the brindles DS & the fawns mals.

Two breeds same litter.

FCI registered DS is different, they are more show dogs.

Either way I would not even bother to look at the papers.

NO FCI brindle Dutch Shepherds are not only showdogs there also good working FCI DS in KNPV -IPO- Mondioring, PSA etc

Original the Dutch shepherd or the malinois are the same breed they come from the same district
Brabant/Limburg  in Belgium and  Holland

Around world war 1 they use the brindle and yellow dogs to breed because many dogs are lost
through the war , later they splice the colors so the DS their breed standard is brindle,

There are some good FCI kennels here in Holland I don,t know how exactly the situation is in the USA
but what I know some   some have used the not registered dogs in their pedigrees

Worldwide there are more mixed malinois-dutchies than FCI D-S yes they can be yellow/black or brindle
In KNPV they don,t look at te color of the dog they only look if the dog can work so you can see
there a lot of exotic colors and type of dogs, but this dogs have not FCI papers.

If you wanna a FCI brindle D-S you better ask also the DNA if you don,t trust the pedigrees

Before there was no madatory registration a lot of breeders around the world have used the
not registered dogs in their FCI pedigree dogs.

2 full brindle FCI parents and DNA checked must give 99,9 percent brindle pups I have never seen a yellow or black  color  pesonal in this litters

but it can be happen the historie from the breed  malinois influence long time ago.

But you have to know the original FCI  registered  Dutch shepherd is a rare breed there are only wordwide
5000 -6000 dogs.  short  long and  rough coated  -     silver and gold brindled  it is never been a comercial breed.
.

You can check this breeder good reputation and knowledge   site is also in english

http://www.ledobryhollanders.nl/

Good post Blackmal, nothing more to ad.

FCI Mals have the reputation for being crap here in the US.
It is 120% acceptable to breed a Malinois to a Dutch, KNPV stock have close to same foundation stock. KNPV lined dogs were bred for workability, not registerbility.
I see litters all the time(KNPV lines) with mixed colored pups. It's not at all taboo. I know of a bicolor bitch out of a brindle, can't remember dams color. Solid blacks, sables, bicolors, they all come up.

 

KNPV register dogs you can find out in http://www.bloedlijnen.nl/  also the dogs with no FCI  papers

I don,t agree  that the FCI malinois are crap if you look at FCI World Championships all breed  IPO

15 dogs at the top 20 are FCI malinois, in ringsport you see a lot of top ranket  FCI malinois too, the foundation from
most  of te KNPV malinois coming  from the FCI ringsport malinois there are still some very good FCI
malinois  and dutchies  also in the KNPV

http://www.hondensport.com/CWH/WKFCI/2015/uitslag_indiv.html

FCI Mali X FCI Dutchie you can,t get a official FCI paper not possible here in Holland

 

 

I said they have the reputation for being crap in US. I'm sure in your country where people actually care what they are breeding, there are many nice ones.
BRN is NOT a registration, that is a website such as this to record and view pedigrees.

If you see a KNPV lined Mal registered, its a fake set of papers

I know of a kennel(should I say glorified puppy mill) that has a KNPV Dutch that is registered with UKC. Don't see how, you don't have to go back far to see pitbulls and other breeds.

I know the KNPV bloodlines very good but not every  of them have some  pit bull-rottweiler - great danes and
other breed influence thats why there is DNA to check this in the FCI paper dogs.

But its true  the not registered  dogs are more popular here just working properties is important no size or color.

 

Thank you to everyone for the information. I'm not so much hung up on papers when I know the breeder & trust them. My best working dog was a Malinois with no papers. She was a dream dog; calm under pressure, hellfire & brimstone when I needed her to be. But I knew her breeder & would trust him with my life or the lives of anyone I cared about. So papers were nothing between us. Well that man retired with no more puppies.

So far I've had some near misses in my search many of which someone let the truth slip out. They don't realize I don't mind so long as I know before I put my money down. Truth first makes the breeder far more trustworthy in my eyes but some of these folks just have to try to sneak one over on a puppy buyer. Some just don't get it.