2 GSD sisters Quick training question before we begin obedience - Page 1

Hi everyone,
I am new to the board.
We lost our beautiful GS cross dog at Christmas, he was 15 :(  We loved him so much, he was cherished and treated like gold.
I have been so brokenhearted.



2 nights ago we bought 2 pups.  


One lives with my husband and I and the other lives with our 22 year old daughter.  
Mine, Izzy is so good, she listens and they both came with obedience to basic commands (puppy version of course)

This morning was the first time we took the sisters for a walk together.

What a nightmare!!!
Suddenly they hated other dogs, barked and growled, Izzy was jumping on top of cars!!!

When the two are together they are so powerful.

Until we start the classes, what should we do when they are barking aggresively at the other dogs?

BTW when they aren't together they are fine, they love other dogs.  Common sense tells me don't walk them together of course, but there is going to be instances of them being together as we live in the same complex.

Dotty4, 
Just wanted to tell you sorry for your loss.  When these dogs come into our lives we have no idea just how much they will affect us.
I just thank the Good Lord, he blessed me with the ones he has put in our lives. Once again, I am sorry for your loss.

Now, I also wanted to tell you that those girls are gorgeous and I am sure that they will be loved just as your other guy was.
I am not a professional trainer, but I have had some experiences with what you are describing. I can only tell you what has worked for
me. Until someone else with another idea or method can help you, you may want to try this.

First of all you are right to not walk them together, at least for a while, until you get this worked out. It is natural for dogs to feel more
powerful when they are in groups.  Its the way dogs survive in the wild, in packs. Its just a natural instinct. One dog out on its own is not as
powerful as with another or more than one.  Its kinda like people that are members of a gang. One out on the street could be bad, but with the another member of
the gang with him, he is really bad and feels more powerful. LOL    Makes sense to you?  

What we have done in the past with puppies is when out with a puppy we always bring a favorite toy or maybe a treat.  As soon as we see or sense there 
is going to be a show of power as in barking in an aggressive manner at another dog, we redirect the attention away from the action.  
It can be done by quickly turning in the opposite direction and at the same time direct the pups attention on his toy. Distract his attention from 
the behavior you don't want. The treat can be given as a reward for his change of "attitude".  After several times of redirecting and the puppy gets the 
idea his aggressive actions are undesirable, which usually doesn't take long, you will be able to walk them together again. Of course both puppies will
need to be trained, not just one, because puppies have a tendency to feed off of each others actions and emotions, especially if they are littermates
and have been together till now.  

There are many ways and ideas that I am sure others will share with you here. I only stated what has worked for me. It may not work for others 
and some may even feel as though my way is incorrect. Like I said, it has worked for us in the past. That's not to say if ever I have the problem 
in the future, it may not work on a different puppy.  Each Puppy and dog has it own level of tolerance or level of confidence. So those things will
also play a role if ANY particular method will work.

Good Luck with your new puppies. Keep us informed as to their progress.

Hutchins,
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond with your ideas.  It makes perfect sense!
Thank you, I will do that when walking them on their own too.

My daughter is more of a softee and she lets hers jump all over people, the daughter needs the training the most.

How soon should we take them to classes?

They are getting chipped and their final set of shots next weekend I was thinking I would start after that.

I will have a million questions so I am happy to have found the board.

You might want to try finding a local trainer and not just a "puppy class".  Someone who is good in obedience. 

And just on a note.. every GSD puppy I had barked and growled and raised up their hackles when they saw new dogs (and sometimes even people).  I ignored it... and took them to the source (the dog or the person or whatever it was they were overexcited about... and this included cats). 

This of course is not possible with two dogs, and the handler needs to be confident.  At this age.. they are all piss and vinegar but they dont know what to do with it.  Some people mistake it for aggression and it isn't.  But treating it that way can tend to lead to aggression.

Hutchins has given you some good advice on how to handle the obedience end.

I have three GSD's and just recently started going to a Schuthund training course with my youngest who is now 5 months old.... I thought I knew alot, and I've had Shepherds for 20 years... I am finding there is always more to learn.

Good luck with your new babies!!  Hard to believe they are sisters... let me guess which one was jumping on the cars... the one in the back of the photo????  She looks more Working Line!

Yes, she WAS the one jumping on the car!!!

Sorry to be so ignorant, I was overwhelmed with information when I was picking up the girls.

The fluffy one is like a big softee, wirey, cuddly, stubborn, playful.
The dark one Izzy (mine) is very smooth, quick, she jumps over the sofa almost.  When she walks, it is almost like she is sailing, so smooth.  Same with going up stairs, she sails up.

I really need to figure out what I am going to do with them, what type of training.

Oh and thank you for your input!

In order to stop this behavior I would first take awhile to really bond with your puppy (not with eachother, but with YOU).  I would play focus games, a lot of them.  I would practice walking without distraction (in your fenced yard or in the house) and reward when she is in the correct position and looking at you.  I would make sure she feels safe and that you are her leader so she trusts completely that if there is a situation you will handle it so she does not feel she has to. 

Raising hackles, growling are all signs of insecurity and a lot of it  is genetic and some a factor of age.  Still insecurity is at the root and the dog feeling that she must protect her sibling and herself and maybe you because you might not (from her point of view, not in reality)  A lot of this needs to be addressed before you ever go out and see strange dogs.  Her mindset needs to change, needs to focus on you, needs to look to you for safety and security and direction instead of what she is doing, deciding she has to handle it. 

After the above, if she won't look to you when you ask her to focus you can correct a small pup by a no, and a tap on the side of the neck to get attention and if she is really not responding by leaving the distraction alone and looking at you, making her lie down.  (on the ground, not on a car) NEVER pat her when she is tense or getting the evil eye you won't be calming her, you will be reinforcing the aggression/fear.  Of course when she walks with sibling, without the proper focus/bond they will look to eachother and think they have to protect the other.  BTW, a lot of folks with working dogs do not correct puppies for jumping on people or but that does not mean our dogs do not listen to us or are not under our control.

http://www.canineuniversity.com/articles/training/train_26.html

http://dogscouts.org/Indirect_Access.html

Two links for teaching focus ..VERY important with this kind of behavior and for every dog.

Just a note about your "jumper"... try and keep her from "sailing" too much!  That kind of exercise can be damaging to her joints at this age.

Good to know

Thank you so much everyone, I am memorizing all these tips.