Westminster dog show - Page 2

Hey, I think you are correct in many ways. As stated, however, some1 needs to speak up and say that BOTH sides of the pond have been screwing up the once-great GS. (e.g. Why are Belgians taking over? We have plenty of Euro-based lines here. Police and MIL don't like even those as much any more?) Back to the positive - yes, it's great that at least lip-service has been given the WDA and Schutzhund in the GSDCA recently - printed frequently in the Review. Also showing are Euro-line dogs up for stud service. You'd never see that 15 years ago. What saddens me, however, is that Americans have become EVEN WORSE now than they were in the '80s, when I was pretty up on the show scene and already distraught about the narrow, "overangulated" (really, just too-long legs) GS esp. in the Specialty set. (The all-breed set has always been better - just proves that "outsiders" must provide a needed balance.) I'm hoping the Euro influence will stick. But there are too many cliques who have defined the breed for 30 years, and they're not dying out - and they've taught too many younger gen. that this narrow, paddling dog is the right thing. These people still insist on saying things such as "our dogs fly like they're supposed to (NOT)" and "German dogs are heavy and ugly". How do you march against those that control the breed club and the type of the dog? I don't really know the answer, given the AKC system of looseness. The AKC standard really isn't bad; it's just that no1 actually goes by it! They simply pay lip-service and say they conform to it, but really they're just convincing people by lying enough times so that it is the "truth".

I haven't seen this bitch in person. I'm a very big fan of Dallas and Tina, both I have seen in person. I did not care for her rear movement, she moves on her hocks, not her pads. Otherwise, I felt she was pretty, had a very nice head, dark eye, feminine expression, absolutely beautiful coat and pigmentation. I think the AKC breeders are very good at breeding good pigment in their dogs. On the other hand, she could have used more leg and less angulation for my taste. Not the best Dallas offspring I've seen, I like Tina much better. I didn't notice the soft ears either and say what you want about Moses, no one grooms or handles a GSD better than he does. Yes, he wins more than he should, but so do a lot of SV handlers. Politics are no more rampant in the AKC ring than they are in the SV ring. I've seen it in both arenas and I think most everyone else has too. I believe Dallas has sired a lot of puppies and just like any dog, import or AKC line, there are bound to be good ones and mediocre ones in the show ring. That's show biz.

Hello all, I really hate to sound so uninformed, but I really do not know the slightest thing about the American lines, so here it goes: Who is this Dallas being refered to? Thanks

Hey Hawiian2, the "Dallas" we are referring too is "Kismet's Sight for Sore Eyes" he is owned by Dayglyn kennels http://www.nvo.com/glyn btw...did anyone else notice that nearly every single GSD entered in the westminster was produced by one of the 4 big Ks? actually, only Karizma and Kaleef was represented, Kenlyn had a dog entered but scratched, Kismet was the only one of the 4 Ks not entered. Only one dog entered was not bred by nor out of or sired by one of the 4 "K" kennels. Talk about american kennels to watch... The time I saw Tina in person, I thought she was awesome, I liked her better than any of the other Dallas kids I've seen in person. BTW...even though I think Jimmy wins too much for political reasons, I would sure love to have him handling my dog! he does do an awesome job training his dogs too show themselves off with minimal hands-on by him in the ring. there will always be fads, there will always be problems, what we need are deep rooted breeders who last for decades and are not influenced by fads and work continously to breed out "problems".

I was looking at the video and couldn't help but to notice that some dogs started limping... Is this due to the dislocation of the hocks that were bred in theses poor dogs?

Brittany, I too have noticed what appears to be limping in the American show-line type. I cannot offer a firm opinion as to the cause, but it seems to occur because of the extreme rear angulation and possibly poor nerves. I really can't call it limping, but it is at the very least clumsiness and extreme muscle/ligament strain. I recently took some of mine to a yearly AKC-sanctioned show, and I remember some comments by others as they compared the movement of the American show-line types to that of my dogs. With a small audience gathered I laughed and said "well, I guess that mine prance a bit and are quite full of themselves-it's the same German qualities that I have-just a character thing." Enough snickering-I think the problem is a serious one that has come to pass since the fabled Lance of Fran-Jo defined what was to become the American show line. A bit of exaggerated rear angulation was good, so enough to cause the butt to drag the ground much be sehr primo. Just think what will happen if we try to walk around in a bit of a duck-squat, but with our feet further behind us a bit. I think that we would be limping as well, and certainly not have smooth powerful motion. And yes, I have seen what I considered to be a beautiful American show-line male. I was impressed with his movement and his balance. Very nice skull and broad shoulders, and not too much angulation. Almost "too German" for the last AKC show we attended. I think his handler was surprised when I said to her "nice boy". Bob-O

The only thing that I like about the American shepherds is their backs... They don't have the Roach back problems thats common in the German Shepherds. I feel that both bloodlines have some kind of issues as far as conformation and structure goes. Talking about nerve issues... Check this out http://www.nbc6.net/news/7123212/detail.html (None GSD related) I'm sure you guys have heard about this.

Bob-O, I am glad to see that you are objective and honest towards the American showlines.It seems that almost everyone immediately passes off the American showlines as trash as soon as they are mentioned.I myself am not a fan of mmost Amer.showline specimens, but I have seen pictures of a few very nice ones with nicely shaped and sized heads, and good body proportions and decent angulation.My cousin has two very nice ones that are very sociable and have really stable nerves.I am curious as to the male you mentioned who impressed you.Can you give us some info on him? Thank you.

I am not trying to start an argument or anything but I hear alot of talk about how these dogs look but the GSD is a WORKING Dog so how do these American lines work. Every single American bred dog I have seen try to do some form of protection or ScH could not do it. They didn't have the nerve or correct temp for the work. Just my thoughts.

I believe what you refer to as "limping" is what I myself call a "Paso Fino walk". These dogs' legs are so long (I really doubt it's much about angulation - mostly it's length), their hocks/pasterns so long, that they must throw out those bottom portions to the side, and/or must lift from the *shoulder* to make the leg clear the ground. Hence, they look clumsy. Watch them from the front. They remind me of Paso Fino ponies who are actually bred to throw out their pasterns to the outside when trotting (sort of the reverse of the American GS!). Only they are more elegant when they gait than the American GS!