Structure & Movement - Page 2

Hi again Lenny, At risk of unnecessarily raising your ire. I agonised over side-view skeleton drawings and drew silly pictures of fore and rear limbs and angles trying to come around to your comment on tibia length - and largely keep going round in circles! But, if one draws a downward sloping line to represent dog spinal column and then similar lines from there for scapula, pelvis and limbs at requisite angles/length etc, there doesn’t seem any need for longer tibia bone: the resulting geometry delivers rear stifle slant automatically if pastern and hock are to land on same horizontal line - or seems to do so anyway in my amateurish drawings! On the other hand … maybe I’m simply missing something in your earlier explanation!

Hi All, Another great new thread. Can see all you gentleman have much more capabilities in you descriptions and understanding of geometry than I. Did I not mention long ago I was no mathematition? Talk of degree's or of the mathematical equations between this & that, principles of levers & pullies and you leave me in shame. Now I know what a good front, croup etc looks like. So tell me what degrees that is and I then know what that degree's looks like. As I don't even own a set square and compass so I cannot even imagine what 20% or 30% looks like!! However will just say IMO the perfection of hind angulation is when the upper & lower thighs are of equal length. Just as length of upper arm should be equal to that of length of forleg above the wrist (or rather pastern joint). I can therefore only presume that unless you want to end up with knotted rope this is the principle of levers and pullies but of course realise I will possibly be corrected on that? Regards Sue B

Hi Sue B, Great to see you enter with usual expert input. This thread sorely needs your experienced and practical know-how to balance the perhaps more esoteric contributions. I also find myself measuring percentages with set-square – with occasional unique result. Regard.

the best way to understand movement, front or rear action is to take in a show. tape the best shepherds in several classes, tape the judges comments. if you can play it back in slow motion while looking for the good points the judge commented on. then, use pause to see if you see the effects of short upper arms, straight upper arms, and the rest of the comment compared to the best in the classes. useing the best to study keep us away from fault finding. the ligiments have some to do with how the shepherd uses the best conformation. too lose, you can get sloppy movement, in the back, pasterns, anf the hocks. the best judges will see lose movement in the complete action.

Thanks Gem I couldn't have described it better. It's extremely difficult to explain in writing something which should be seen. GSD's move perpendicular and in fast movement they should place the upcoming back foot where they have just lifted the front foot. In correct movement the legs shouldn't cross nor should they "short step". Your advice to watch videos/DVD's in slow action is the best so far. I'm afraid if I try to measure my bitch's angles by degrees, she will think I'm crazy and will definitely not stand still for it! (joke) Yet she is one of the best movers in the ring so I suppose her degrees must be OKish.

OK Sugarplum, Trust you to come up with percentage jibe. lol Best I could do since my PC does not capable of sticking single little o for degree's and got sick of typing full word!! Gosh Sugar and just when I was getting used to all that fawning I apparently need! Whilst RAOFL as were all my friends, husband of 30yrs reckons those in need of fawning the most are the ones who most notice the fawning of others. A jealousy thing it seems, so clever I never thought of that, makes sence though, very observant guy my hubby. Not much gets past him, not even I! Regards Sue B

Hi Gem, Went back to some of your earlier posts and, judging by your keen knowledge, I’m surprised you didn’t return earlier to this thread! Under Banana Backed topic earlier, you pointed out how a roached back allows ‘more under-reach with less follow through in the rear’, and how the ‘American shepherd was allowed to get longer with less angulation in front to extend the movement’. And, how ‘looser ligaments allow more extension on both ends – with weaker ligaments the middle piece looses the firmness needed to hold the shepherd together’. I shouldn’t plagiarise, but pretty relevant stuff. Pineridge made some good comment there too! (Maybe we should have started this topic by first reprinting better past bits!). Cheers. SueB: no jibe intended - little tease to keep you on your toes: I'm captive to your charms, and mere putty to your wishes.

Hi Pzdc " It's extremely difficult to explain in writing something which should be seen." For me you are right on the nail in that statement. Though realistically I suppose in the beginning someone had to put something in writing somewhere, otherwise how would any of us know if that which we were looking at was how it was supposed to be? Might be down to the difference between those who learn academically and others who learn in the field. I reckon I am the latter, which are you? Hi Gem, Reading what you said reminded me of the first German Sieger video I wrecked years ago. All that frame freezing, Slow motion viewing and Frame by frame stopping & starting eventually wore tape out! :-(( Great learning curve though :-)) Regards Sue B

Hi Sugarfoot, Tease to keep me on my toes eh! Good job I was wearing my ballet shoes then or I might have missed it. :-) Regards Sue B

Hello to all, I looked up croups in the dog in action. the comments had been on steep croups on draft horses, allowing this gives them more power. then the comments goes to Gazehounds, the breeders seek an arch in the dogs back so the whole assembly can be directed forward as tho the croup were steep and still permit the leg a full arch of action which a flat croup provides. is this where the roach comes from, these roach back breeders got the Gazehound standard? :)s Hi Sue B, I wrecked a couple of films too, when video came out it was much easier to copy several dogs I wanted to see close togather with out rerunning the original. Sugarfoot, we had a couple of warm days, had to get out do the things we put off for winter. :)s