V-1 Nemo von Waldhimmel, SchH 3, KKL 1 LBZ - Page 3

Yes, that is why I asked if Dave realized this schH III dog was not a personal protection dog.  I can't believe he would sign a contract like that if he knew.  He did sign it so he may be out 2 grand legally, but I'm not sure he is a scammer, more than likely just a fool.

I'm also curious why a V1 SchH III dog is sold so inexpensively but not for work, breeding or show.  Strange.

"I'm also curious why a V1 SchH III dog is sold so inexpensively but not for work, breeding or show. Strange."

I don't think it's strange.  $1500 is not inexpensive for a dog that cannot be trialed, bred, or shown and is 7 yo and of a breed with an avg. life span of 11 years.

Also, often people are more concerned about the home and not infrequently offer a better price to a better home.  Told that the dog would be a companion to a family living on a 50 acre property does sound good, and looks like the seller tried to further provide for the dog by making sure the buyer knew exactly what he was getting into: companion dog only, never to leave your home.  If ever you do not want him, he is to come back to me. 

Red Sable's point about thinking he was buying a personal protection dog is a good one, yet at the same time you'd think he'd want that in writing, too, unless maybe he thought he was the one getting a steal - I'm sure if he looked around at the prices on PP dogs, he wasn't finding any trained dogs for $1500.  So that works both ways - maybe he thought he was buying a PP dog and was misled, or maybe he played up the "oh, I just want a pet/companion for my 50 acres" when he really wanted a trained PP dog but didn't want to pay the going price.

"if Nemo goes back to the breeder, then why does this guy not get his money back , this is truely unfair, i mean he payed for a dog , he should get something for his money. this is like stealing, he would have a case here. he deserves his money back. or a dog that he really does wants. i say to do the right thing.

this is what a honest breeder would do........"

Oh, man, this is so harsh.  I totally disagree.  Like stealing?  Stealing????  Buyer agreed IN WRITING to buy a middle-aged dog and not receive the papers.  So how is that stealing?  In addition, buyer agrees IN WRITING to never resell the dog and also gets a perfect right to keep the dog until it is 11 or 12 years of age (or older!) and then say, nope, I don't want him any more and the seller then gets back this aged dog.  And you think the buyer should then get his money back?

"he payed for a dog , he should get something for his money."  He GOT something for his money.  He got a V-rated SchH3, KKL1 dog for his money!!  He got exactly what he agreed that he got, and now that he got it, he's decided he wants more (the papers) or else he wants something different (another dog).

Then, to top it off, buyer agrees to all of the above IN WRITING and then immediately tries to sell this poor dog.  I don't know either of these parties but thank God the seller cared enough for this fella to protect him in this way.

It is the last part of my question I'm curious about.  No good for work breeding or show.  The dog must have issues, which is why he is being sold at a pet price because we know 7 isn't  too old to breed or work or show for a healthy dog.



Actually, 2 grand for a dog that is basically just a decoration piece with maybe health issues(just guessing as no one has volunteered the info) is way too much IMO.

I don't know, I'm just playing devils advocate for Dave who isn't here to defend himself as he is being called a scammer.  Yes, he signed a contract, (and he shouldn't be trying to resell),  but was he mislead a wee bit?
ETA:  This buyer has to feed and care for this dog to the end of its life, not cheap either for a dog he isn't happy with.  He was a fool to sign.

 "No good for work breeding or show. The dog must have issues, which is why he is being sold at a pet price because we know 7 isn't not to old to breed or work or show for a healthy dog."

Wait a minute.  Who said he was "no good"?

It's not uncommon at all for a breeder (in any breed) to place a dog in a good home and to require these things.  Especially breeding.  You think I'd want a good dog of mine sold somewhere and then the buyer gets a couple of junk bitches and starts breeding puppies? Or offers him at stud to anyone with cash? No, you'd protect your lines and the dog himself.  Same for trialing.  He's 7 years old now.  He's earned all his titles and more.  I can easily see the seller saying this guy did it all and I don't want him jumping 1-meter jumps or scaling walls any more.  Sure, done correctly he can stay sound but again, to me, the seller has protected the dog.

Last point: not every breeder breeds a dog as long as they can.  You have a good dog, he has worked well for you and produced well for you.  You now can carry on with his offspring.  In my mind that's the goal of breeding - you work to improve your lines and you move forward.  You don't need to keep breeding just because you can.  Or maybe you are moving in a different direction with your bloodlines.

If this fine old guy has done all this for you, you are still actively working with the next generations and you find a family home where the guy will get lots of one-on-one attention, certainly place him there.  Often this works out great for everyone, especially the dog, which is of course the most important.

 

"It is the last part of my question I'm curious about. No good for work breeding or show. The dog must have issues, which is why he is being sold at a pet price because we know 7 isn't too old to breed or work or show for a healthy dog."

Perhaps it's as simple as the dog not being able to reproduce himself well.  I think 2K for a beautiful, trained adult dog with plenty of years left in him is a deal.  People pay that and more for puppies all of the time and have no idea what they're getting.

haha, you're exactly right, Keith.

No one said, I'm assuming, and could very well be I'm wrong, but 7 does not seem like an old guy to me for a male dog of such conformation and titles.
If you don't want him used for breeding/show, neuter him first, and you don't have to worry about that part of it.

Fact is, Dave isn't here to defend himself, so we don't know his side of the story.

I don't need his side of the story.  He signed an agreement then started trying to circumvent it before the ink was even dry. 

A SchH titled show line dog does not = a high drive personal protection dog.  If that's what the buyer thought he was getting that should have been spelled out in the contract if he wanted the ability to return or resell the dog for that reason.  I got a high level Schutzhund prospect puppy and it clearly states on my contract that the breeders do not guarantee the temperament, drives, titles, etc of the dog.  That way I cannot turn around and demand a new dog or money back if my dog ends up being a nice pet.