How do u calculate ZW - Page 1

i am pretty confused as to " how do u calculate a dogs ZW or brrd value" Coud someone plz help me out on this... I knw that zw od 70-80 is good but over 100 is bad but waht does all this signify.. Also hip xraying is not very popular in my country...and te vets have no idea of how to rate hips...could somopne also tell me or atleast give me some idea to how the hips are rated...allthat a , afast normal stuff.. Thanx Fida

I have asked this a number a people also. Isn't there a book/website or some material you can get at Amazon etc where rookies can get initiated into the GSD show/working World?? regards Vikram

For a litter, to begin with it is pretty easy. You add the parents' ZW and then you devide by two. That is the starting number for the whole litter. Individually, it changes as the puppy gets x-rayed, parents', grand-parents' ZW changes, etc. For an adult dog, the number will go up or down depending on the hip status of the offspring. Unless you are privy to all that info, there is no way to guess that. You can just go to the SV's website and check every three months (that is how often they adjust the number). A big drawback is that only dogs who are registered with the SV will be included, no foreign bred dogs, unless individually registered with the SV (if they are in Germany and owned by an SV member). Chris

Sibersee i ge what u say but how can the offsprings ZW affect the parents ZW.. fo hips do u mean that if the pup grows up to have good hips and elbows the number will go down further.. what is the ideal..and how can u maintain it..

Fida, the whole idea of the ZW is to calculate one dog's genetic contribution to the incidence of canine hip dysplasia. Naturally, when a dog produces a lot of hip dysplasia, it will cause his ZW (hip score) to go up. And it should. His own hip rating is not as relevant after he received his initial ZW. Best example: Jeck Noricum (a-noch zugelassen) did not produce many bad hips, but Zamb Wienerau (a-normal) had a much higher incidence. With the ZW system, it would be exposed much quicker as Zamb's number would have consistently have climbed up. It is a great tool for breeders, if utilzed correctly. Chris

Fida, the SV recognizes 5 different hip ratings: a-normal (normal or good hips) a-fast normal (almost normal hips) a-noch zugelassen (still permissable) mittlere HD (moderate hip dysplasia) schwere HD (severe hip dysplasia). In the last two cases, your dog will get a breed book ban (meaning no offspring is eligible for registration) and its name will be published. Here in the U.S., the OFA has more ratings OFA Excellent (not many GSDs get that) OFA GOOD OFA Fair Borderline HD Mild HD Moderate HD Severe HD. The hips are not certified until 2 years of age. The a-stamp can be done at 12 months of age. Chris

Cheers Silbersee, Must compliment you on clear explanations above. One question. Radiographs are 'scored' by expert radiologist by taking measurements of spacing(?) related to each hip, right? (don't quote me here!). So, he produces a table of figures for each hip, and declares a total for right hip of say 2, and the left say 5, giving us a hip score of 7. The question: What are the specific figures that the 5 SV ratings are derived from?

Look around for some articles by Fred Lanting - I think he has written some pieces on the ZW structure and comparisons to other systems. Jeck is a good example of the discussion above -- He did not have a good rating but produced much better than himself so his number improves.

Hello there...does anyone know of a certified vet who could rate the hips of our dogs in South - Asia

Patrishap, I wish I could answer that question. I know that the professor has a template he uses to lay on the x-ray for measuring, but I do not know what kind of score-system he uses. Can anybody else answer that question? On another note, I always x-ray my dogs between 12 and 18 months, I then go to our local hospital, who (for a nominal fee) copies my x-ray. I send the original through the United Schutzhund Clubs to the SV and the copy for another prelim to OFA. Sometimes, the differences in evaluating are amazing. A few years ago, I co-owned a female with a friend. She received a-noch zugelassen and OFA-Prelim GOOD - same x-ray. We protested, and the SV ordered another x-ray done in Germany, since she was going over there for titling. They revised it to a-fast normal afterwards, later she receive OFA FAIR at three years of age. This is not an isolated case. A lot of other friends had the same problem. the evaluation of the SV was worse than they had hoped for. My guess is that this is due to the fact that dogs in U.S. veterinary practices do not lie straight on the x-ray table. In Germany, they are actually placed into a form. I have seen it myself. Years ago, my female Isa was placed into that form and strapped, so she laid exactly straight. That was at a practice in Osnabrück, Germany. In another incidence, I had a prelim done on a 10 month old female. It was so completely crooked, it was pathetic, but even then, you could see her well formed hips. A lady who wanted to buy her was disgusted and told me that she was completely dysplastic. At two years of age, she received OFA GOOD. What I am trying to say is that it really depends on the quality of the x-ray sometimes. And... two people, two opinions! Chris