Puppy Testing - Page 1

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by sunshine on 05 November 2004 - 05:11

What do you think of Puppy Testing and why? I witnessed it recently on a litter of 8 East German Lines pups. The testers said that they would never pick a pup out without doing this test. I was just a spectator. For the breeder of the litter, it confirmed to her that the pup that she had previously picked out for herself for SchH was the one she would keep. I have to say the testing took a very long time and the pups reacted very differently to the stimulus. On a note, I have always chosen my dogs because of a feeling I had that we belonged together. No matter what our road would be. I don't have a long history in the breed. But I certainly would not pick a puppy out that was shy. None of these robust pups were. . .

by Het on 05 November 2004 - 15:11

I always temperment test my puppies. i have been doing it for 8 years and it helps me the breeder explain why a pup is to much for a buyer on not enough for a buyer. I have never had a pup come back to me because of temperment. a couple of divorces and no one could keep the dog but that is about it. to many people buy a puppy because they want it to look a certain way and do look at anything else. I had one buyer think that I was full of shit, and was madd that I didn't think a certain pup would do well with him as he was a very loud dominate type of guy. He didn't want a sable so took the black and tan because of the look. Well the black and tan was not the dog for him, she was softer and couldn't handle the stress of such a dominate person (I am not talking about abusive or hard person, just a natural dominate person) so anyway after about two days she wouldn't come to him and was submissive peeing. He called and said he was sorry that she did all the things that I said she would do and did I have the other pup and could he traid them. I did, so we did, and the little girl is doing great with him and so is the first female in her home with kids and a family she is very outgoing and got all the right stimulation and is not a shy girl at all. So I now will not let a dog go home with someone that I don't think it will do well with based on the test. I do the Volhard Temperment Test Heather

by ALPHAPUP on 05 November 2004 - 17:11

hi sunshine --- hope you are well :-) .. puppy testing has validity .. but i think you bring up a good point .. one must understand what the pup is thinking and feeling...as well as yourself -- there are to many books written and cookbook tests -- my feeling -- best is simplistic obsevation in addition to setting up the dog kindly to see it's response -- but most importantly , which a lot of people really don't understand is : it is the context and interpretation that is just as impoertant as the response and behavior !! for example , i have a dog that i told my friend is high in hardness , very very dominant and will exhibit characteristics that show that he will be high in aggression [ which is good for certain endeavors] .. well my friend did the text book thing about picking the dog up and to see how long and what kind of struggle it presents .-- well the dog fought like crazy in his arms ... he thought he knew the temperament of the dog ... so he puts the dog down ... it ran away -- my friend looked at me as if to say .. yeah a bit of dominance .. he totally missed the context and point !!! at 10 weeks of age .. once placed down the dog took five steps away from him .. maybe he thought it appeared as if he ran away -- fifth step the dog spun around like lightening , darted immediately striagt back to my friend , catapultrd and jumped into him and started to tear his jeans off ferocuoisly --- i said to him .. "that is a dominant agreesive dog ".. he come back to take you on after you seemed to restrain him ... i said .. "no no no , no ... you thought the dog was dominant because it struggled in your arms ... but an extremely fearful , afraid dog can exhibit the same behavior .. it could struggle as if it life depended on it in panic in order to free and flee from danger .. what was important is what the dog did in response .. the return for the fight and bite !! so many people miss the interpretation of behavior in CONTEXT and in regards TO WHAT the PUP is ThINKING and FEELING .. and if one looked very very close at the pup -- if you can "be the dog " and if you were one with the dog - you/ breeder would see glimpses of this nature/personality / temperament in the dog within the environment and see within it other natural behaviors day to day as well ... Just as well also and with almost as much certanty to simply observe the dog too a person with sensitivity and experience can pick out dogs from their feelings too in addition to temperament test .-- just a sincere opinion --- wish you the best - be well my friend --

GSDNewbie

by GSDNewbie on 05 November 2004 - 17:11

I so agree and loved your stories would love to hear more. A breeder who daily spends time with the pups know each and every one of them they know the personalities I trust a good breeder to know which dogs personality suits me and what I want. Testing is a must I believe to know how each one will act and react you cant go by looks or a short encounter. When my female was ready to be picked there were three excellents in the litter as far as pigmentation and structure I told the breeder to pick the personality to match she gave me the three pups personalitites had already chose for me but still left the option open to me and I chose the one she also had felt would do best with me and I am completly thrilled with her. The female I passed over as gorgeous wonderful pup but she was too quiet for my tastse. But if I had just seen the litter and was chooseing without knowledge of thier temperments any pup can just be extra tired or off that day you are not getting the overall view of weeks of observation a breeder does.

by Het on 05 November 2004 - 17:11

being that all my dogs live in the house a we raise them in our home interacting with them all day long, I know the temperment of the pups. I normally will have picked out my puppy by 4 weeks of age, based on temperment..but the test will give the buyer the tools to make an informed decision. In my first litter when I didn't do the temperment test, I had people tell me that I just didn't want them to have the best pup. that really had nothing to do with it. I wanted them to have the pup that would best fit them and their lifestyle. this lets me show then that based on the test this pup would most likly be...... I totally agree with Alphapup. I have done temperment tests for other breeders and they even say the same thing, oh the dog faught, but as you are looking in their face you see that it is fear, aggression....and the big thing is if they come back sweet and forgiving, or want to rip your pants off, or run and hide. I have also had people want to watch me do the test and they will try and read into something that they no nothing about, so you have to have someone give the test that knows behavior. Heather

by JanisNovak on 06 November 2004 - 03:11

Once you've been with the litter 24/7 for 8-10 weeks, you really DO know the pups. I've only ever had one pup surprise me on the temperament test. This pup had scores so high, I wanted to ask the tester to go back and check for respiration! THAT puppy "woke up" at 7 weeks 2 days and was a holy terror, quickly became the most dominant pup in the litter, the most focussed and with the most ball drive. But I wouldn't have believed she would become that way on the day of the test! Even though I know the pups, we still do the test. I like to have the numbers and notes to go over with the clients and sometimes it helps make the decision between two or three pups, all other things being equal. If they ever are. I've also had clients try and cozen me into giving them what I feel is the best pup in the litter rather than the one that is the best pup for them. It's hard to get the point across that while I have first pick in every litter, it's NOT using the same criteria that they would use to pick a puppy. The pup won't have the same lifestyle that they will provide, the same career path, the same treatment, etc. I've had one puppy come back to me because of a temperament mismatch (very loud, inconsistent owner who really needed a much stronger dog to put up with her nutsiness, but she presented very differently during all of our phone conversations prior to placement) and one pup that failed to bond, they brought it back with a supposed heart defect, but none of them (even the child) ever called the puppy by name. And, as my vet said... he wished HE had such a bad heart as these people claimed this puppy had! Different breeders have different ways of choosing puppies for clients or letting clients choose puppies. But I've been very successful with lots of personal interview and testing. JDN - US

by GSDLVR on 06 November 2004 - 04:11

I learned a lot at this site - check it out : http://www.brolangsd.com/puppy_diary.html She does the early neurological stimulation AND keeps an online diary of her pups. Really neat! Not to mention her contract will scare off any dishonest puppy buyer that isn't dedicated to the love of the breed.

by JanisNovak on 06 November 2004 - 04:11

We do the Super Dog program with pups, too. I'm never sure if it really works, but I figure it can't hurt! Plus, I'm going to be handling them anyway, might as feel as if I'm doing something good for them rather than just being selfish for me. JDN - US

by Laris on 07 November 2004 - 16:11

So much about puppy testing, but I think it is equally important to conduct the “new owner test”, if there is one. Is there such test for new owner? I know there are plenty of psychological test out there, but I am looking for a complete and comprehensive test covering the puppies, as well as the new owner (and the new owner’s family members, sometime it is the children that spend the most time with the dog that the one signing the cheque)

by sunshine on 08 November 2004 - 18:11

Thanks for your positive input. I did not realize how widespread the testing was being done. I can see its validity in placing the right pup into the right home. Thanks again.





 


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