Line breeding on Ursus Batu - Page 1

Hi, I was wondering if anyone know the experience of breeders in line breeding on Ursus. I have seen a couple of litters advertized in the USA as either 3,2 or 2,3. Is this generation old enough to tell anything about hipe, elbows, teeth, ears, conformation, temperament? Your information is appreciated. Sunny

hello -- i have seen a good number of offspring from ursus lines ... and a good number of very very poor offspring , with serious problems to boot -- my personal biased opinion .. i would not line breed on ursus -- I mentioned in a previous e-mail -- breeders are to monetary based --- many want to breed , an do quote myself , the goose that laid the golden egg - meaning everybody wants to have that VA-1 dog when in fact the GSD is multitrait and one should I think simply strive to breed a great sound , regal/couragous /utility , well-structured , noble in temperament dog .. -- maybe there just wouldn't be such a dicrepeacny between show vs. working line because the GSD does/can have it all . Again as I previuosly stated -- one better/should know darn well the GENETICS involved because there are as many DELETRIOUS TRAITS retained in line breeding as well as the GOPOD DESIRABLE TRAITS -- good luck

Certainly Ursus himself has produced more good dogs than any sieger since Jeck v Noricum. But these dogs had Ursus as their father and were not linebred on him. Linebreeding is always a double-edged sword. Very few people, with the exception of the late Walter Martin, were able to succeed on a regular basis. Neither Larus v Batu or Erasmus v Noort or any of the other top Ursus grandsons I have seen were linebred on Ursus.

hi sunshine I personally would not do it on this Urses line. I would be scared to death to try even. Personally line breeding is so riska that I would need to be so hard up so to speak to try it for I know of some that have and gotten so called freaks or cripples. Please do not try it, just not worth the aggrivation of. jill

wildthing, I guess u mean inbreeding (mating of dogs related in first generation?). Linebreeding is extensively used in GSD. The idea being to restrict the genepool to a predictable smaller lot with desirable characteristics. However, this is almost impossible to attain with any amount of certainity.

Klossbruhe...guess that depends on how you define a "good dog." Howdedo...the extensive linebreeding and limiting the gene pool is what is getting the showlines into serious trouble. they've got such a limited resource that they are tightly linebred upon that it's showing up in many ways. Guess that's what happens when you need "cookie cutters" to show in the ring.

hello all [-- sunshine i just remembered you ] . Yes Mike brings out a very important point ... the effects of linebreeding and multiple line breeedings showing up in not just one characteridtic but a variety ... if you are one with a good ursus offspring i think that there is somewhere a good compatable mate that will produce some terrific offspring , perhaps spectacular -- maybe even a nicer preferred type. -- dogs are not perfect -- there are many lines with excellent type and characterisitics .. there are some that may very well complement the ursus type .. if you are looking to recapitulate the ursus type by linebreeding .. just be careful of the genetic transferable faults.and they are there .... personally i feel a good outcrossing helps strengthen the breed -- empirically speaking , look at a number of crossbreed dogs -- they overall tend to seem to have better health and less gentic related problems than somepurebreds.

Line Breeding on Ursus is fine but it should be done in 4th 5th generation. Inbreeding is breeding done with animals in the first generation(eg Father,daughter) It can multiply the Good and the Bad traits of the Sire and Dam. This is dangerous and you dont know where this will hit. If your lucky you might get 1 exceptional pup but the others.....?? Linebredding is always safer, you linebreed to attain a Specific Type by using common dogs in 4th 5 th Generation so you have puppies like those animals on which you linebreed.

Mike Russell, You are correct. I have a Ursus son who has a lot of problems. Seems like he'd get something thoughout his puppy hood then get over that problem to have another one crop up. We are now fighting a case of EPI we think. The vets we've taken him to are still out on that conclusion so he's going to Ohio State University pretty soon for further tests. It was my zealous chance to get a Ursus son and I never thought to check the dams side of the pedigree. She's an Ursus grand daughter this was a very expensive mistake for me. We'll probably end up placing him in a pet home because of his problems. Anyone want to see his pedigree can look here: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/388013.html I believe he is too closly bred but that's my opinion. Birdy...

Gosh Birdy, I am sorry for getting back so late. I completely missed your comments. Thank you all for your input because it certainly has confirmed my own beliefs that such a breeding would be too close. Love that line though. Can see why it would be tempting to breed so close. I hope your pup is OK. Sunny