no gaurantees - Page 1

hello everyone i am a victim of getting bad dogs i bout two females from a kennel in holland one was a puppy the other was 15 months old well the 15 month old was displastic and did not get a replacement of a 15 month old dogs didnt get nothing the puppy was not bad in body type but so spooky you couldnt touch it with a 50 foot pole this breeder in holland got very upset with me when i told him the truth about the puppy and said you can still breed her thats not right in my books breeding dogs with problems which would reproduce problems he had her there in holland for three years and still no title i called the trainer up and evan he said the bitch was screwed up in the head this guy started off to be a friend but turned out to be a crook he told me dont worry if shes not good i will help you out well three years later nothing was replaced and now hes got a lawyer involved so hes not a true breeder he a money hungry low life he breeds dogs with no titles males and females and ponds them off for alot of money his partner in the usa has over ten dogs and i think one has a title a fella who lives in my area had bought 2 dogs from this usa kennel and both were very spooky so theses people dont breed to improve they breed to make money and rip off your average family whos looking for a good german shepherd thats shows theres no breeding eithics and people doing this for the almight dollar people like this are going to destroy this beautiful breed

First of all there are no rules that regulate breeding of GSDs in Holland like there are in Germany, so please do NOT compare the two!!!!!!! Unscrupulous breeders and sellers are to be found everywhere. Bottom line again was probably that this appeared to be a good deal because the dogs were most likely cheaper than elsewhere. The fact that this fellow breeds dogs without titles in Europe should have raised a few questions. Not quite sure what the issue is with the puppy. Try punctuation next time, or at least the return key to separate some of your thoughts you try to communicate. Why do you send a dog back to a place where you had a bad experience twice already? Why is she with the breeder and not with the trainer? The 15 months old should have had the hips certified already at that age or at least been pre-screened with X-rays accompanying the dog. It is your own fault for not paying attention to this when you bought this female. If you had not discussed guarantees before the sale, do not expect any after things have gone wrong. Why is it that, especially in the US, people that set out to purchase dogs from overseas expect a Mercedes with all the bells and whistles, but are only willing to pay for a Lada? Quality demands a price! Shop for a Mercedes at a Mercedes Dealer, and you will get what you pay for! Shop for a Mercedes anywhere else, and you will get what you pay for!

You already mentioned this in an earlier thread and mentioned that the SV should regulate such breeders. The SV has no jurisdiction in Holland. In Holland all purebred dogs are registered with the Raad van Beheer and under their rules. The SV only regulates breeding of GSD in Germany.

when you are buying these puppies or dogs do you just buy on a recommendation from the breeder owner or from pictures do you ask for a video, When l brought my dog l asked for the hips & elbows to be x-rayed with the dogs tattoo number to be on the x-ray and the present owners name, l had the x-rays sent to me to be read in my country so l knew under our scheme what l was looking at and l would not commit to buying the dog until l had pictures, video and the hip & elbow x-rays were read in my country, and the people who had and still have at this stage (due to quarantine restrictions here) my dog have done everything in their power to oblige any requests from me have been done no hassles, l would gladly recommend these people, they are in the US with imports from Germany...

Coragio, Sounds to me like you're an honest person because you couldn't even imagine people would treat you the way you've been treated. Honest people don't anticipate scams because they themselves wouldn't scam others. Don't worry...things will get better for you and worse for them. Their deeds will come back to haunt them just as your trusting and honest nature will bring you rewards in the long run. Hang in there. D.H., How unkind of you to turn around and belittle someone who has already been hurt. You make assumptions as to prices of dogs and lack of guarantees in advance. Coragio's only fault was his trusting nature. Your comments were not helpful and show a lack of compassion. Couldn't you see this person is frustrated and hurt? Not everyone types as perfectly as you or is as wise and intelligent.

Diane, All the more reason for people like D.H. to tell it like it is. To prevent others from making the same assumptions. If you read back over posts that D.H. and Preston have made in the past. They offer a lot of excellent advice to the reality of the situation. Hopefully others will benefit from their input here on the board.

Dog1, D.H wasn't "telling it like it is"...he/she was making assumptions that aren't true and then turning the blame on the buyer based on those false assumptions. Coragio was looking for some understanding and compassion and he got criticized for his typing and grammar. I know Coragio's story in full and know he wasn't "expecting a Mercedes for the price of a ..." whatever D.H. said. He paid more than D.H. probably thinks he did and only expected a representative dog, with certifiable hips and normal temperament. He got none of the above, plain and simple. There WAS a guarantee, but of course it's not enforceable for a reasonable fee between the two countries. The hips were said to have been prelim'd good, then came back dysplastic. Coragio was led to believe one of the dogs that was "in training" was doing well, until he finally talked to the trainer and found the dog was faulty in temperament and stick shy. Meanwhile, the breeder took this guy's money for the "training" and ran. I'm certain the breeder can do this legally and has apparently gotten away with it time and again. But, it's ethically inexcusable and Coragio's only recourse is to vent a bit on a forum like this. Dog1, I know you're an importer and bad experiences like Coragio's scare people into believing they can't possibly buy a dog/puppy without a middle man like you in the picture. I have nothing against you or what you do, but as has been said before on this board, buyers need do some homework and breeders need to be ethical in their dealings. There is no excuse for unethical business, but without a lack of ethics I guess no one would need middle men like you to "watch out for them", would they? How's that for "telling it like it is?" Again, nothing personal against you...in fact I rather like what little I know about you. But, I have no patience for people who blatantly abuse someone else's good will. You provide (from what I can tell) a good service for a good price...no problems there. The breeder who took Coragio's money, lied to him, and sent him dogs he knew were "lemons" is wrong for what he did. Coragio's ability to type has nothing to do with it, and people shouldn't be scared into thinking only someone like you can possibly get them a decent dog for a decent price. D.H. could have found a better way to state his/her opinion of the matter, without adding salt to the wound.

Diane, I agree with much of what you wrote. I'm sure there is some behind the scene info that was not published. I still think the points that DH mentioned are valid and addressed some of the concerns from the original post. If you buy a 15 month old dog, you should know what the hip status is when you buy it. It's old enough not to rely on preliminary information. Above all my point was continued awareness about the complexity of getting something close to what you expected. I referenced previous posts by DH and Preston because they are accurate and well thought out posts. Those that read the posts are at least knowledgeable about what the situation is when considering a purchase and are armed with the knowledge prior to purchase. In case you missed it, I posted an opportunity for those that find their own dog to get it assessed before it arrives. Thus eliminating a middleman. I have a vet freind in Germany that for 200.00 (160euro)will vet check, paper check, do a little temperament check and handle the transfer of funds to anyone that wants some reassurance from a third party about what they are about to buy. If more buyers did something like this before they sent a check for a dog they saw in a picture. We would have less to write about on message boards like this.

+++If more buyers did something like this before they sent a check for a dog they saw in a picture. We would have less to write about on message boards like this.+++ Yes, and for the amount of money some folks shell out to a total stranger for a totally strange dog, they could hop on a jet plane and check the beast out in person (G) For dogs above 2 years of age, you can also pay for and have OFA certificates done *before* your dogs is shipped, I would rather throw a couple hundred for that then cry later. Just some food for the brain. D.L. Sherman http://www.sherman-ranch.com http://www.naturalpetsource.net

So maybe it's time to stop being politically correct and post the name of that breeder...?