Question about show lines vs working lines - Page 1

I am relatively new to GSD. I do have imported puppies from Germany. Fathers are VA's and mothers are V's. I wanted the best I could afford and I got wonderful puppies. I then tried out a Schutzhund club and from the comments when they looked at my dogs, I felt as if they looked down on my dogs. Comments were made in the first 5 minutes that "oh, those are show dogs", "they may not work out with Schutzhund". I noticed that their adult dogs were rather small and not real good looking, but they worked okay. Not great, just okay. My question is, aren't the best GSD's in the world supposed to be the ones rated VA and V at the BSZS? What exactly does a working line GSD have that Larus Batu or his like don't have? Is it just that with a working line GSD the percentages of getting a Schutzhund title are higher. Or is it that dog owners like what they have (whichever it is) and tend to put down the dogs others have? I can not imagine working line dogs being better at working than the BSZS top one hundred or even two hundred dogs. If they are, why are they generally cheaper in price?

The VA and V title automatically assures that each parent is SchH titled. But for most show line dogs it means that one mandatory title (females usualy SchH1, males usually SchH3), where just titling the dog regardless of points will suffice. Many show line dogs, especially the males are already SchH3 by the time they are barely 2 years old, and most of the rest of their time is spent in the show ring, females also squeezing in litters. So they can do the work, but it is not the main focus. SchH sport enthusiasts compete more regularly at SchH trials. They compete at SchH3 level repeatedly and always hope for top points. Many do it just as a hobby, many get rather serious and ambitious and have hopes for making it to Regional, National and World Trials. In order to get these top points and to trial at such levels these dogs have been bred over the last few decades to be able to withstand more relentless and repetitive training, more rigorous training methods, and tougher competition from other dog/handler teams. Conformation is secondary, hence the different look. Many years ago the lines split so that we now have a very distinctly different show line dog, and a working line dog. Each have their own top competitions. The BSZS for the show line dogs, the BSP for the working line dogs. Most BSP competitors do work far superior than just about any BSZS dog will. But then again, the BSP dogs spend all their time just working and preparing for these top competitions. A BSZS contender could not compete actively in SchH sport the same year it is being campaigned at the shows. It really is tough to do both. Top working line dogs cost no less than a top show dog. In Germany show line and working line pups out of the top kennels cost about the same. It is in the US where you see the difference in price. Some proven US working line kennels get top dollar too though. But, because of the better SchH performance of the top SchH dogs at the top trials, most SchH clubs can be somewhat prejudice against show line dogs. Though that is not justified really. There are weak working line dogs, just as there are weak show line dogs. For a show line dog that has good conformation a SchH trial passed at a lesser score is acceptable among show line folk. Working line people want to see top scores though and working line dogs that do not work to their spec usually disappear quickly from sight, thus creating the illusion of all the working line dogs out there being kick-ass performers. Many of them are, but not all. And many show line dogs never can develop their full potential because they are rushed through training and then only return to the SchH field when necessary (ie Siegershow preparations). cont...

cont... Some show line dogs do make it to the Nationals and the Worlds. But the focus on show line dogs, just like the name says, are shows. Focus for working line people is the SchH field. You would only find a full blooded working line person at a show ring out of absolute necessity, such as getting that one mandatory show rating they need for a breed survey. Keep in mind that it is a sport. So people pick their "equipment", have their own preferences, and favorites, hassle others a little, and in every sport you have some politics. You decide how you want to play this game. Your show line dogs to not have to be the next National SchH Champion. You could ask the club members how many dogs each has gone through already and how well these dogs have actually been competing for them. You will find that quite a few club members have most likely gone through several dogs that have not worked out for them. A little reminder that not all working line dogs automatically equal SchH success. Then remind them that you just want to enjoy the people and their dogs, and learn about the sport, and eventually title your dogs. If your dogs do great, maybe you want to compete more regularly, but if they are just ok (a dog is also just as good as its handler, so as a newbie even the best dog you could find will never be trained and trialed to its full potential with you at this point), then remember that you still need to spend lots of time in the show ring as well. Just enjoy the dogs, enjoy the sport, and smile when someone gives you hassle. If you are lucky your dogs work out well and the argument will cease on its own.

Thanks much. I understand a better now. Except for that part about getting "one mandatory show rating for a breed survey." Does that mean that a working line GSD must still conform to the GSD standard in order to be bred?

In Germany, yes. A GSD needs at a minimum of a G (good) rating in conformation to be eligible for breeding. Also needs a-stamps, DNA, SchH1 or equivalent.

D.H., It was a real good way to talk about these two diferent worlds. It was didatic to me too. Tanks.

Enough already D.H.!!!!!! When is the book going to be finished??????? I want my copy autographed personally!

me too!

D.H., If you autograph my copy for me, I PROMISE it will ALWAYS rest on the bookshelf, right beside my 4 volume Max von Stephanitz series! Stephen

think Corvette vs Continental Rolls vs XKE Jag Mercedes vs Porsche.... they all have the same basics - but it what you do with them! Lee