What determines size of puppies? - Page 1

I wonder if high quality food makes too big whelps even if fed in recommended amounts.

fed to the bitch,I mean,while in whelp

Good question - could be true. I keep my females in good weight - not too lean, but definately not fat - throughout their pregnancy, and through their nursing weeks. They sometimes need to eat a LOT of food during their last weeks of pregnancy and through their nursing weeks! LOTS more means they need more calories. But, for the majority of the pregnancy I don't change their food at all, usually their intake stays the same, and I feed them normal adult food - unless they start losing weight for some reason - some females produce big puppies, some not so big - in my experience it seems to depend on the size of the litter, and the size of the parents. Eagle is a big dog, Aika (a female bred to him a couple of times) is a large/normal female - her puppies are always pretty big, and big-boned. She also has not had large litters - do they grow bigger because there is more room to grow before birth? Perhaps - they have never grown so big they could not be born naturally, except in the case of one or two-puppy litters - c-sections are the safe things to do in the case of very small litters IMO. As for feeding the mother "too well" and therefore makign the puppies larger than they would be otherwise - I don't think that would happen. I could be wrong - but in my experience feeding more only makes the female gain weight. molly

In people, and probably in dogs, it doesn't matter. There is ZERO correlation between the weight the mother gains during pregnancy and the weight of the newborns. However, this is not to say that deficiencies of something important -- critical vitamins, protein, calcium -- may not have a deleterious effect. Of course, toxins ingested can have huge impacts.

size is determined by genetics :)) As Molly said above feeding the female to much will only result in a heavy female and overweight can cause birth problems . Infant size such as large litter smaller pups and small litter larger pups do not determind adult size either unless we are dealing with an extreme runt. It is however noticable that in most cases smaller litters do tend to produce larger pups at birth . My female gave birth to 10 pups each weighing smaller one 15 ounces all others 1 pound to 1.3 pounds ;)which are considered within the normal range birth weight . Pia

In my limited experience it seems that the larger litters produce smaller puppies, and the smaller litters produce puppies that are a bit larger. I have no hard statisitical data that means anything, but I have noticed this. The difference in size is not tremendous-maybe a couple of ounces. I would agree that genetics play a stronger role than anything else in determining the size of the puppies at birth. The female should have plenty to eat while carrying the litter, but she must not become fat and sluggish before delivery. She needs careful daily exercise in order to remain in strong physical condition so she can successfully deliver the litter. After delivery, she needs as much food as necessary to make enough milk to feed the puppies and that is where the larger litters can really drain her of nutrition. Just as a note, I for a long time kept spreadsheets that showed the delivery weights and growth rates of individual puppies-thinking it might be of some value. After a few litters I scrapped this idea, as I saw that all of them developed at different rates regardless of their size at birth. My spreadsheets were not a useful tool for anything. At birth, if they weigh between fifteen (15) to seventeen (17) ounces, I accept that as perfectly normal whether there are ten (10) puppies or four (4) puppies. I have heard of GSD puppies that were much larger at birth, but that is not my experience. Bob-O

[quote]In people, and probably in dogs, it doesn't matter.[/quote] Sorry, that is just not true! [quote]Gaining too much weight raises the risk for having a baby that is too large, which may lead to a difficult delivery or Caesarean section, she said. But gaining too little weight in pregnancy raises the risk of having a low-birthweight baby, which poses a hazard to the child.[/quote] Link: http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Apr02/0,4670,DietPregnancyWeight,00.html Concerning puppies, Jennifer Roberson of Cheysuli kennels (Cardigans)says that the space for puppies is limited in the womb. Each puppy has to find room for the placenta to attach itself to one of the horns of the uterus. One horn may have only one or two pups, while the other has 4 or 5. If there is not enough attachment surface for the placenta, the pup's growth will be stunted because it can't get enough nutrition from the mom. That explains why some pups wind up as being runts, and why some are even re-absorbed early in pregnancy. Genetics certainly plays a role too. Her most recent litter was from a small bitch, but the pups were huge, and had to be born by c-section. She said the stud dog owner was astounded by the weights. "These are the largest puppies Fudge has sired. Fudge himself is not that big a dog, but his sire has produced some big, heavy dogs, so that may be where it's coming from." For an overdose of cuteness here are the pups at about 3 weeks.... http://pics.livejournal.com/corgwyn

http://arstechnica.com/journals/science.ars/2007/04/05/all-dogs-great-and-small-scientists-discover-the-gene-that-controls-dog-size

So, pups weighing between 1 lb 3 oz to 1lb 7 oz., in a litter of 10.........seems big? or normal?

Gsdlvr2, from my experience those heavier puppies would be on the large side. One (1) litter of ten (10) puppies produced birthweights from fifteen (15) to seventeen (17) ounces, and a subsequent litter of eleven (11) produced virtually identical birthweights with the exception of one (1) female who was tiny, and weighed only thirteen (13) ounces. For the record, she grew to be an eighty-five-pound monster. This was from the old Fero granddaughter that I own, and she is in the middle of the standard and was bred twice to the same male who was over medium size. It makes absolute sense to me that a very small litter of two (2) or three (3) puppies can render puppies that are too large to be born normally. These puppies would have all of the nutrition available from the dam, and more space inside to develop. Which brings me to another question; what is a "normal" litter size? My gut feel is six (6) puppies, and there is certainly enough statistical data to provide an answer that may indicate one (1) more or one (1) less. Good thread, Bob-O