Puppy Absorbtion - Page 1

I would like imput on the topic of females "absorbing" puppies, please. I have seen that mentioned a lot here and asked one of my German mentors about it and his reply was, if a females has puppies she was pregnant, if she does not, it is because she was never pregnant. I am not disputing the "absorbtion" thing, so hold on to your horses, not calling anyone a liar or anything of that nature, just looking for facts about something, as to edify myself. My questions for input are this, how can you tell that "absorbtion" has taken place AND how many were "absorbed"? Where do the puppies go if they were "absorbed"? At what age is the "absorbtion" cutoff, where the fetus is no longer "absorbed", but is now born dead(still born)? How can one determine what causes "absorbtion"(stress, infection, ect.)? If puppies are "absorbed" does that now cause some type of infection, or bacteria build up at the least? If the puppies were "absorbed", how did we ever find out about this to make a determination of it's existance, to begin with? Is there some books/topics on this subject or is just word of mouth? Thanks in advance. Stephen

Stephen, I can tell you that I have seen this happen with one of my own females. There was an ultrasound done at 28 days, which showed distinctly that there were 9 pups. When she whelped, there were 7 pups, none stillborn, no extra placentas, etc. The bitch was shipped before 40 days. I have since found out that shipping prior to 40 days is a no-no, unless you ship IMMEDIATELY after breeding. Shipping between day 40-47 (usually the week the dog has been bred over) is a good idea. I try to aim for shipping 40 days from the middle (if there are more than 2) breeding. Stress, infection, poor diet, and many other factors can cause a female to reabsorb fetuses. The absorbed pups are typically completely absorbed back into the mother's system, and no, there is not typically an infection. Infection (pyometria, etc) is usually seen with pups that die after the mother can no longer absorb, which I have been told by the vet, is when the bones calcify. When that happens exactly, is probably different with each litter. You know when you can get an x-ray. They can't x-ray if there is no calcification of the bones, so day 45? would be the best approximate. I'll look through my ten million favorite places saved and see if I can locate some more information for you, including books on the subject. Hope this sheds a little bit of light.

I can probably give you a couple of examples... have a friend who ultrasounded her bitch and at 28 days, 6 pups were counted.. come whelping day, there were 3 ........ I believe the correct word is also resorption, although absorbing seems to be what mom's body does ... They say mycoplasma, that little devil can be responsible for this .. lots of people don't check for it .... years ago it was a send off to the vet teaching school kind of test so it took weeks, nowadays I think it can be done either way... Many years ago, we had a bitch who was bred and was clearly pregnant... she was palpated (yes, many many years ago!)by my boss who had such a feel for it... and yes there was that "string of pearls" we alsways looked for.... about 4 weeks into the pregnancy, we had something (viral we think) go thru the house and it affected all dogs and it was pretty bad .. after that, the pregnant one seemed flatter on 1 side than the other... she did not whelp normally, no contractions (after a totally normal 1st litter)..just a crate full of mess first thing in the morning and an emergency c-section shortly thereafter.... she had 1 dead pup, out of the placenta.... 1 lived for a couple days and 1 was partially resorped (it was kind of messy .. my boss wouldn't let me look at it, I was already a wreck.... I took the pup who dies for a necropsy but nothing was found that was stunning info.. So, yes, these things do happen and years ago before ultrasound or a really good touch, maybe we would think oh, she's not pregnant.... I guess it could be compared to a miscarriage in a human and those definitely happen.... As far as shipping, our latest import shipped to us about 2 weeks after her breedings .. not a problem at all..... Have seen bitches who even go out of heat if they are shipped.. so who knows?? Hope this helps and if I can think of anything else, I'll jump back in..

My reference is Chinological 1 part author Prof.dr.sc. Mario Bauer from 1992. mario.bauer@vef.hr That book is used on Veterinarian University in Zagreb for teaching chinology. He said that pregnant female in first part control number of newborn and in second part newborn control their mother. She controls with hormones number of germs to improve the best number for their quality progress up to birth and she can absorb them few or all in a case of her health problems or life danger or problem with raising of greater number of future newborn. Stress is one of the factor of activating that kind of hormone too. In second part mother hormones could not absorb and stop offspring and offspring produce their own hormones and with that hormones help derive essential food from mother and control her. I have same situation twice where pregnant females examined by ultrasound in 3. and 4. week do not pups same number as we count before. And absolutely the best time for shipping pregnant females is between 40-47 days from mate.

In the cases of ultra-sound denoting number of puppies, is this a hard fast detection, or can in fact the person reading the ultra sound be mistaken in what he or she "sees"? Thanks.

With ultrasound it is hard to exactly count puppies and you can mistake. But if you count and expect big litter and instead of big you get one or two newborn we must think in other way. For me is the best time to count with ultrasound is early as you can catch germs in period of three weeks.

regarding ultrasound for counting: my vet has always told me an 'at least' number; there may be pups that don't show up because they are behind others, but there were always at least as many as she was able to see with ultrasound.

It does happen and has happened to me one time the female got big and then all of a sudden she got a real greasy streak down her back like she had been in oil and her hair was extremely shiny like a bottle of hair conditioner had been dumped on her and she got small and I took her in and she had reasorbed the puppies is what the vet told me all but one he did not give me a reason this happened but she stayed very greasy feeling for about two weeks and he said the bone and all was resorbed is why she looked that way the body is strange... he said the greasy feel to the coat is a sure sign this happened and if you have ever seen it you would know it was actually wet looking and she dripped in this oil from her skin...the one puppy was stillborn and was huge her orginal untrasound showed a big litter....this never happened again with any of her litters...

I noticed mention of shipping after 40 days or so. This is somthing that I would never do, if I could avoid it, from my point of thinking. I would have to think based on the physiological effects that pressurization in aircraft can cause(without going into a litany), that the sooner you shipped the female, the better off the litter that she was carrying. I would guess the later in the pregnancy, the larger the fetus' and the greater detriment pressurization effects would have on those larger fetus'. What are the facts, where can I find some facts surrounding this 40 day number? Thanks for the input, by the way.

Hi Stephen, it is like with women are not supposed to fly first or last trimester.it is risky to the bby. It is not 40 days or so,it is between 40-47 days is the best. to ship After that it is not good either.there is a "window" for that shipping. It isn't so much the pressurized aeroplane as it is the G+D of the pups. early in pregnancy is high risk of abortion,late in pregnancy is high rish of premature birth. that is why the window. remember,it is the gradual pressure change in the plane,the mother is not affected enough to compromise the pups in general. She is in effect the "shock absorber". It takes alot for mom to be adversly affected to the point that it will affect the babies in relation to pressure. I don't have numbers on this,sorry,just exp hope this is of help