BSZS bitework helpers - Page 2

Then why did it go on DH?!!!!!!! If the helper did not see, then why didn't he act the same with every dog?!!! Get a grip! Yes, of course an inappropriate bite is not a good thing. But no matter what you think, it IS funny when a dog is pronounced not be able to bite, the judge moves his arm towards the handler, and the dog bites. Obviously the dog thought the arm movement was a threat. Yes, the handler should have been more careful and yes it is unfortunate that the judge had to be in pain. Be that as it may, the fact is they were still on the bite field where the dog is SUPPOSE TO BITE. Not in a public avenue. Anyone there who was against schutzhund would have a binder full of things to complain about. Yes, the dog should be under better control and definately better trained. It should not have happened.It is not going to ruin schutzhund and it is not going to ruin the breed. Seeing the humor in this situation is only normal in my eyes. I feel sorry for those that have to take life so continuously seriously that they can not smile at the paradox.

Hi Daniela and Frank, I agree with you on all of it. It is really funny: The people who cry the loudest about how bad the bitework is are the ones who are the great experts. They have the best of both, show and working, and they only breed with titled dogs. More power to them and good for the informed puppy buyers. Einen schoenen Sonntag wuensche ich Euch noch, Chris

Chirs it has nothing to do with any kind of expertese. It has to do with rules! Everyone knows that you are the only one with any knowledge and have the best dogs. Let's hear from you puppy buyers how well your progeny work! Debby

djc, What is pathetic, and NOT funny, is that you think it is ok for a dog who is under no threat to go ahead and bite someone whose arm moved. Shameful. I hope you are not involved in Schutzhund, but if you are, perhaps you better have a discussion about reality with your club members. This kind of thing in an event is of great concern and demonstrates poor training and/or a poor temperament on the part of the dog and handler. It is NEVER funny when someone is bitten. And if this dog would bite under the circumstances you described, then the dog would likely bite in other non-threatening situations. I find it disturbing that you saw humor in this rather than a dangerous situation. As for how the helpers conducted themselves, I was not there, but I do know that there rules concerning how they should conduct themselves and if they did not do as directed, then it would be noted and the individual would risk dismissal. Making the statements you do, as others have already said is, at best, unfair and perhaps biased.

Hey Debbie, Looks like I'm one of those puppy buyers from Chris. All the pups I've seen from their breedings were better than most. Check out the police dogs that Mike Andrel has been using on the street and see where they came from. Probably should have looked a little closer to who you were talking with before you engaged in the conversation. Chris and her husband have been participating in German Shepherds from a working perspective and a show perspective for years. They raised and trained a dog to VA status, have titled dogs, and Joe's a pretty good helper. Their breeding program is pretty good too. Their sable female Gina went SG53 this year in Oberhausen. Probably would have done better if it was shown more before the sieger show. Chris is from Germany and her knowledge is extensive. I was in Oberhausen and while no dog ever gets the same presentation from multiple helpers as it's not physically possible to do so. It's a far cry from your accusations that helpers are paid to make a dog look good. So unless you have some first hand information you wish to pass on to substantiate your accusations, listen to the good advice you have from Daniella and Chris and set aside the rulebook you think you know so much about.

Hi Dog 1, And I am one of those dog/puppy buyers that would not buy from Chris. I am not impressed with Chris and not because of her dogs/breeding program but more because of her attitude and actions on the Green Board. I met Debbie in MO and again in NC. I can only say really good things about Debbie. She is HONEST and SINCERE and tries to do her homework. Debbie has earned respect from all of us. She does not need to step down from anyone. I don't give my respect and especially am not going to give it because you come on and support one of your Green Board Cronies. The dogs from the Silbersee program that did well in law enforcement were well bred but also fell into great hands that developed them. That is not to say that other dogs have not/could not have done the same. I was in Oberhausen also so let's set that aside as a lesser creditial for expertise. I have been at the Protection Field at numerous US Sieger Shows and witnessed as seen in numerous videos the differences in the "stick hits" in engagement and can only wonder if the judge thought we were all stupid and didn't notice. So Debbie raises some credible questions. I would hope that the organizations as a whole work to ensure a credible balance in the competition at every competition and use the power they have to ensure it. If the helper does not raise the stick and hit the dog the judge should excuse the dog. End of subject. The Helper should not work a National Event again, end of subject.

Kathy as usual you fail to address the issue at hand. The statement was made without support that helpers were paid to assist a dog. That is the issue. Nothing more nothing less. It sounds like Debbie has earned your respect as you do not speak for all of us. It's simply the blind leading the blind in your case. It's obvious she has stated information that is unfounded and you have rolled right in to support the information she can't support. So if you were in Oberhausen. Maybe you have some information to support Debbies allegations. If not you need to refrain from topics you know nothing about and have no valuable information to contribute.

Hi Kathy ! If helpers want to work as they want at the siegershow they get replaced. They get told from the offical site to not work that hard,like as the Bundessiegerprüfung. I agree with you that the protectionwork should be harder at the Siegershow. But almost nobody who is in "showlines" wants that anymore.As long it¿s this way we will have "working" and "show"lines. I don¿t agree that the helpers get paid for "extra" soft work. The female who bit the judge was a nervwreak. Very best regards Terry

Thanks Kathy the respect is returned. Dog1 The issue is NOT helpers being paid off. As I stated earlier it was just a list of POSSIBLE reasons as to WHY THE ONE SPECIFIC HELPER DID NOT FOLLOW THE RULES AND DID NOT WORK EACH DOG IN THE SAME MANNER. It is a hugh difference when a helper is hiding and when they are standing in full view banging on the blind!!!!!!!!!! That Mr. knowitall Dog 1, is the issue!!!!!!!!!! You are just one of those followers like most of the rest in this thread that does not care what is right and wrong or about rules. As you have clearly stated for all to see. I have less than no respect for people of your kind, in fact distain for those who do not care about keeping the breed as it should be. If you all did, you would care as much as I do about following the rules!!!!!!!! Rules are made for many good reasons and to tell me to forget the rules is pathetic, appauling and outrageous and a very good reason not to respect, do business with or otherwise associate with your kind. I am in no way intimidated by anyone! ANYONE who does not care about following rules and sits by and ignores such blatetant wrong is only contrubuting to the problems with our current GSD's. It is you Dog1 that is truely blind and a detriment to the breed. Debby

Debby thank you. I was waiting for a statement like that. Because it completed your initial, broad and now obviously incomplete post. From several helpers we now have a single helper that had a different, lets call it 'style'. Part of the sport and sportsmanship is also to accept a judges decision. The judge apparently still accepted that helpers performance and therefore so should you. If you have a problem with that discuss the issue with the judge why he acted as he did. Respectfully. He was right here, so were you. So why didn't you? At an event like that though, there are not droves of helpers on standby to replace 'one' or two that may not be up to par. So for the participants it becomes the luck of the draw. In 2004 for example there was a helper under which many dogs failed. He had the 'habit' of waiving the stick in front of him rather vigurously, between his body/sleeve and the incoming dog, in a way I personally had never seen it done before, whether training or trial. If a dog has not been exposed to such type of helper work during training, that will be confusing for that dog and the dog may react in an unaccustomed fashion to an unaccustomed situation. Not much of a surprise that more dogs failed with that helper than with others, it became rather predictable. Luck of the draw so to speak on that day too. The answer is to prepare the dog for all sort of possibilities, which is not always realistic when you are training for a whole host of other things as well. What can I say to you though... it is easy to comment from the sidelines. Do it once before you critizise so strongly. Both at the helper end and the presentation of your own dog at the BSZS. I would be interested what your opinion will be then. People complain about helpers all the time. Take last years WUSV for example. Lots of complaints about the helpers there too. And that is the top of the GSD SchH competitions. Helper work and its quality is part of the event. If you cannot accept the human factor as part of a GSD event and be gracious about it, then do not participate or attend.