Confused...Working Line Detection - Page 1

Please help, I have had different answers.
I am trying to find out how you can detect a working line dog. What is the difference between working and show line? How can you look at the pedigree and be able to tell the difference without seeing the dog? What in a pedigree do you look for? Please dont just send me links and basic info. I wasnt to learn as much as possible.
I have been told that it just comes down to the dog. I have even been told it just depends on the dogs looks and markings. I been told that my dogs are a mixture of everything, which I dont want. But when I bought the dogs, I was told they were bothe working lines.
I am so confused its not funny. I am attaching a link for my dogs, in hopes that someone looks at the pedigree and can give me some insight on my dogs worthiness. Or maybe some highlights of their pedigrees.


http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=671073 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=671106 

Thanks for all your help and advice...be as open and blunt as you like!
Brian Church

Kinichi is WL on bottom half. Don't know what the top is, but its close! Kuma's is mostly SL.

Thanks for the help. Kenichis isnt complete. I think someone made a mistake of filing paperwork somewhere along the line.
BUT, can you tell me why Kenichis is WL and Kuma is show? I was told be another breeder(with 30 yrs experience) that Kenichi was 50/50 German/American Show and Kuma was 50/50 German WL/SL. So how can you tell the difference. This other breeder came in, said what he said and left. No explanation.

That's not what I said. Kinichi is wl on bottom and top is swag. Kuma is MOSTLY SL.

Ok, well that doesnt help much. Anyone can tell me that they are SL, WL or "swag" , but how do you know that?

Because I looked at the lines and know which dogs are what. I learned how to do this through research. I would think that someone that has two GSDs would have done a little research before buying. Just a guess, but I would bet that I've looked at over 10,000 pedigrees. I can do the same with Malinois and Dobermann. Having myself tell you why the bottom half of kinichi is working is like explaining a math problem. I can look at a pedigree and get a good idea what it will produce. This only comes from research. If I tell a 7 year old the answers to all of his math problems, will he ever learn? Just to ask, but you do know that the third part of their name is usually the kennel, right?

When I first started out, the difference between show and working lines was very confusing.

Kuma's sire is 1/2 German show line and 1/2 working line.  Kuma's mother is all working line.  This would make Kuma mostly show, as Chaz stated, or 3/4 show and 1/4 working.  The easiest way to figure out who's working and who is show is by looking at their picture and color.  Click on Kuma's paternal grandfather, Quax.  His pedigree is full of saddle back black and tans.  Show lines will almost always be black and tan.  Click on Kuma's paternal grandmother, Xaviera.  Her pedigree is full of blacks, sables and bi colors.  Working lines are almost always black, sable, and bi color.  There are a few working lines that are black and tan; but, most of the working lines that are black and tan are mostly black.  Kuma's mother is a saddle back B&T as are all of her ancestors.  She is a show line.

You can look at Kenichi's the same way.  Once you've looked at A LOT of pedigrees, you start remembering names and kennel names that are associated with working and show line

Historically, show lines have been bred to win in the conformation ring (ie. bred for their structure), with working ability placed lower on the list of importance.  Working lines have been bred for their working ability with structure placed lower on the list of importance.

Brian, do you like sports? Even if you don't, this should be easy. I'm going to give you a list of names. You tell me what sport they play and how you know that. Tom Brady, Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Babe Ruth, Joe Montana, Magic Johnson, and Tonya Harding.

Churchfarms,
PM sent since Chaz is being "chazzy."  Becareful going by color or titles, you can't always judge a book by it's cover. 

Why would you breed those two dogs? 




 

Chaz...my name is tom and I live in Seattle, I am a banker. My name is Frank I live in orlando and I am a banker. Whats the difference? Tom is an african american loan officer who is fifty years old. Frank is Asian and is 25 and he is a financial planner. I wouldnt know that unless you know these people or see them doing their job, would you?....I had a teacher like you once. Said he had all the answers and could teach anyone anything. A real "big shot". Well guess what, he did more preaching and listening to himself talk, that he forgot to teach and help others. He eventually retired, but you know something else. All he students went on to graduate without having his knowledge and life lessons. Some even became teachers. Scary?....Chaz I know Tonya and I know the Babe....but do you know their parents? Was Babe's dad a ball player? Whats the point?

to everyone else, thank you for your help. I am getting a better understanding. Much appreciated.

Slamdunc...why would I breed these 2 dogs? 1) because people like Chaz dont want to help others and will make fun of them before they extend their knowledge and help people stop making mistakes .... 2) because I was lied to about what I was buying, even lied to about how to read pedigree. Im trying to not make things worse than what they are. And dont jump on me about breeding these two. I see the mistake and am trying to learn on how not to make it again. Alot of people out there are continuing to not care!