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by steve1 on 30 December 2009 - 08:12
All dogs start from basics meaning just the raw Pup
It is what you the owner wants to do with that dog, the dog has no option but to follow you the owner in its set path
So if a good working dog whatever it was TRAINED for does its job well, there is nothing to say that if it was given the route of a Sports Dog in Schh it would too not have gone on to do well.
That also applies to a good Sports SCHh dog had the owner decided on a different course for the dog
Of course whatever the owner chooses to do with there dogs some are not cut out for one thing but better at another that goes in all things in life, BUT unless you try say both with the same Dog then no can say which is better
I know two dogs in the last 3 years who were trained for SchH but they were never going to make the grade only at club level perhaps but never better so the owners looked at what qualities the Dogs had and chose agility as a outlet for the dogs and both are going well, The same two Dogs were good at Tracking very good and perhaps another path or job could have been chosen for them, But they would have to be trained for it, but that is not what the owners wanted
That is the Crux of the matter there is no better it is what you the owner chooses to do with your dog the Dog has no say in it at all
Steve1
by Adi Ibrahimbegovic on 30 December 2009 - 09:12
There is simply no definite answer to this question.
Don't get hung up on lines, pedigrees etc... Focus on individual dog.
by give that dog a job on 30 December 2009 - 14:12
However I am asking in what way do you feel belguim has done to advanced the breed more than others as you previously stated?
by steve1 on 30 December 2009 - 18:12
Look back on the Sports side the last 15 years and see who has won the WUSV titles more than any other country Belgium has, Plus the fact i think many of the breeders there are very concerned that Dogs get titles with high scores not just passing scores, they want the best Hips and Elbow ratings and they want there breeding Dogs Korclassed, Now when you consider Belgium is only 250 miles +150 miles those are not bad credentials
I think overall some very high classed dogs are bred in this small country in relation to other countries where you could fit Belgium into one small corner and lose it that includes Germany and the USA
and lineage for me counts a great deal regardless of what you think you cannot get a mongrel to win a WUSV title no more than it will do the job as a police dog
It has to be bred in it to do it, same as a human one with a yellow streak will not fight look back in his lineage and i expect you will see the same streak, but that person is still a human same with the dogs, its what is bred in it that counts
If that was not the case then why do people on here keep talking about the lines of this and that dog if it means so little
Steve1
by give that dog a job on 30 December 2009 - 18:12
i should rephrase one of my previous statements.
I would not have a ddr czech cross V, Vanesko vom Salztalblick Yessy Anrebri son if I did not care about lineage. However even with great dogs such as take someone everyone knows like Frankie Anrebri and you cross him with Hilli z Jancího dvora. does this mean you are going to get 10 police dogs? not likely(could happen). does this mean you may get 2 SAR dogs, one cull no drive dog, and 7 police dogs? yes it very well could. So you should assess a puppy for what it is. a unique dog in itself and decide what route is best for that particular pup.
However i disagree with you assessment of dogs without big names competeing at a high level. Noone does it cause it doesnt pay anything. However we have a mix that was competeing for her second schh3 at regionals here attemping to get her V rating. Does that mean WUSV no. But even some non named dogs can work. you take what you are given. I do side work with a company who trail lost animals. There is a rescue lab/shep mix that can out track most dogs i haver met. I have personlly witnessed her on 5+ mile trackes aged days and multi surface and would continue to the next customer to track another animal. Does she have a big name no. Does she have fire in her protection no. But does she possess a unique working ability that seperates her. yes she does. A name doesnt mean anything compared to the dogs own qualities. And many people get juked do to dogs name and not knowing what to look for themselves.
lines are important for the bettermeant of the bread and maintaining a standard of good dogs. I agree. however every dog produced out of a litter is not ther fathers equal. Some less some better. some better at different tasks. So lines are important. However judge each individual dog over what line.
by steve1 on 30 December 2009 - 22:12
My current Pup is mostly my choice of what i wanted meaning the Mother was there but the Father being thought about but i got my way with the breeder putting the Male of my choice to his female
And i had the pick of my Pup, and although she is only 7.5 months old i know before i got her home i had made the right choice, and now 5.5 months on i surely know i made the right choice, everything she does every day tells me that she has inherited all the ingredients to make a terrific working dog of the venue i choose for her to go
As a Police Dog that is out for it means giving here away, so that is not an option
As a Personal Protection Dog i do not need one
So really the avenue for her to go is in the Sport of ScHh
Will she make the grade YES, she will and i say that even though she is a pup
There are times when something stands out from the crowd so to speak and she is one of those rare finds
Sometimes i see it in the nest of racing pigeons i breed, at 14 days old there is at times that rare quality in the young bird which is different and it normally works out to be right
The whole problem with many folk who buy a Pup is this
They can view the pedigree and probably see Photos of the Parents, but that is not the same as seeing and watching the Parents at work and to see first hand the Physical attributes of each one and the temperament of each of the dogs plus the Overall size and structure of both dogs, in that i was lucky i could
And of the several top Males the breeder considered that would be suitable suitors for his female i argued the point of one and i got my way, but it was after seeing all the dogs working the physical sides of the males to the female and the combination of bloodlines that i made my choice
Steve1
by give that dog a job on 30 December 2009 - 22:12
And i grew up in the livestock realm to. beef cattle, laying houses, hogs, and toyed in equine.
Yes i agree with witnessing and assessing the parents beyond a paper trail. But you can also admin
assessing the individual pup is crutial as well.
just as you say with your hatchling pigeons.
all is necessary agreed?
by pldichiban on 30 December 2009 - 22:12
Please allow me to mention and occasion - some years past I was visiting Jurgen Ritzy (von Kolberbach) in Tengen and showed some pedigree to Jurgen and ask (what do you think of these mix ?)
He replyed "papers are for sure a good reference but I need to see the sire and the dam at work before I can give an opinion"
then he added "it happened to me more than once , I was stuck with one pup that no one wanted.......and I ended up with it at the bundeseiger!"
Conclusion, "it is not only what you have that count, its the way you train it"
Paul L.
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