Nike reinstates Michael Vick....Really??? - Page 2

So "fighting dogs"  can change.......

Say's who? Not me


Kim

"So "fighting dogs"  can change but not humans that fought them?"

This has to be the weakest argument I've seen on this subject to date but in answer to your question, no.  The cruelty inflicted on those animals by Michael Vick reveal a defect of character that is innate.

Keith, Keith, Keith. So naive! Don't you know no one gives a damn about character?

Kim, as much as it pains me to say this....and it truly, truly pains me...I agree with you 100% on this. Now I'm going to go hang myself...LOL

I personally don't find the fighing as offensive as the torture. I don't fight dogs, but the thing is, the dogs like to fight. People in many cultures have been fighting dogs and other animals for many many thousands of years. The sicker part is what he did to them,...electocution? Seriously??? Again, while dogfighting ain't my bag, so to speak, it doesn't upset me one iota as much as the torture he personally inflicted on countless dogs. I see no way that kind of soul could ever change. There is simply no way a person can rationalize that they really didn't think that was wrong. F'ing inexcusable.

And I really felt for black Americans when people defended/excused him by saying "it's his culture." EXCUSE ME? Are they implying that all black people think it's fine to torture animals??? I talked w/a black coworker of mine at the time and he was making jokes to that effect and saying how embarrassing it was now that mainstream America was being told that black culture involves torturing fighting dogs (he had 2 Am. Staffs and was saying how he was getting suspicious looks he'd never gotten before).

by Jenni78 on 02 September 2011 - 15:09

Jenni78 Post: 2510 of 2510 Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 03:24 pm

And I really felt for black Americans when people defended/excused him by saying "it's his culture." EXCUSE ME? Are they implying that all black people think it's fine to torture animals??? I talked w/a black coworker of mine at the time and he was making jokes to that effect and saying how embarrassing it was now that mainstream America was being told that black culture involves torturing fighting dogs (he had 2 Am. Staffs and was saying how he was getting suspicious looks he'd never gotten before).

Culture doesn't mean all black people do it. There are different cultures in a race.  The different "cultures" stem from different backgrounds, social & economic conditions.  Simply put, one black person culture can be significantly different from another black person culture.  Your friend at work may have a different culture than mine even though we are both black. 

by Keith Grossman on 02 September 2011 - 12:09	Keith Grossman Post: 1408 of 1408 Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 11:18 pm
"So "fighting dogs"  can change but not humans that fought them?" This has to be the weakest argument I've seen on this subject to date but in answer to your question, no.  The cruelty inflicted on those animals by Michael Vick reveal a defect of character that is innate.

Keith - Now does that same though go across the board for everyone and not just Michael Vick? Meaning, a child molester, a "former Klans member", etc?  Are you saying that depending on the crime, we can say if a person can change?

Thank you for chiming in Ruger.

I certainly understand that point and it was what I was wondering.  You mentioned intnentional mistreatment & abuse...  With that said, I take it that a man or woman who abuses their spouse can't change?  A person goes out and drinks & drives and ends up killing someone.  Can they not "change"?  How do "we" know if they can change or not?

Jenni said -  but the thing is, the dogs like to fight.

I agree they do, it is what they have been selectively bred for. And sadly the people who breed fighting dogs are more professional than other breeders.

The problem I have is when you go out of your way (so to speak) to arrange and organize fighting competitions for dogs, who otherwise might not ever have the opportunity to fight. 

This is not a case of two tough dogs walking down the street and deciding to have a go with each other.



Kim


Ps; Jen, everyone knows how you feel about me so why the drama?  

Ace, of course different people have different cultures. "Black" isn't really a culture. My friend was actually from Haiti and spoke French...way different culture than people probably assumed looking at him w/his dog,lol.  But anyway, my point was that now all of a sudden, people are looking suspiciously at any black people w/Pits, Staffs, hell, any "tough" looking dog, and it's totally unwarranted. Now, white little old me, of course, probably wouldn't have noticed that had he not mentioned being embarrassed by it. I just thought that some of the defenses cited were quite derrogatory and insulting to innocent people, as many generalizations and sterotypes can be.

Kim, not sure what drama you mean. I just had to say I think you're right on this. Forgive me for adding a pinch of humor. I highly doubt people know or care or bother to even think about how I feel about you. In fact, I'd kind of forgotten myself...;-)