Spooky/shy - Page 1

I tried to ask a question in the thread "hard dog", but for some reason it would not post, so I am going to try and ask it this way. Brynjulf explained "nerve" and "hard" in terms that were easier to understand, but now I'm confused about spooky/shy. Maybe someone can explain spooky/shy? I would have guessed that a dog that behaves in a spooky manner was unbalanced in their drives and nerve base, but I guess that's incorrect, and maybe I don't know what spooky refers to. Thanks in advance

I'll take a guess and say, shy= lack of confidence & spooky= fearful reaction to the unknown. So they would seem to overlap a bit in some areas.

I would imagine one could build up confidence in a shy dog, but they will be the followers by nature. I don't think a shy dog has to be spooky, but a spooky dog is probably always a shy dog, too.

Now let's see who will set me straight! LOL

Well here is my experience:  To me they do go hand-in-hand;  however, I do feel if that tendency is there, in my past experiences they were  born with the spooky/shy tendency.  Unless they have had some terrible experience in their lives to make them that way.  Now say they did have some kind of trauma in their life, usually you can train that and socialize that out of them.  If they were born like that I have had a hell of a time training that temperament of be a confident dog.  That is in most of my spooky/shy dogs I have owned.  BOL  Nan

PS:  That said, I am currently working with a bitch that is a confident bitch, however is a freak;  thunder, some extra loud noises; but she is not a shy bitch,  so go figure.  Maybe I just contradicted myself.  At any rate, I HATE working with that temperament also; I find it to be very unreliable.  Nan

I would say that there can be an overlap but not always.  For example, it is possible to be shy (in terms of around people or dogs) but not be generally fearful.  It is also possible to be fearful but still be social.  It just depends.  For example, I do have an exceptionally shy German Shepherd.  He is very, very shy with any new people (adults, not so much children) and with new dogs.  He is curious and will want to sniff at some point, but he will not be pet.  There has been much training done, but this is his general nature.  He has been shy since very little.  He is not spooky or fearful, which normally surprises people.  He isn't afraid of noises, things, etc. and will climb up/over just about anything. 

Now, you can have a very shy dog like him that will become fearful of that person/dog if pushed too far.  My dog will almost have a panic attack if someone attempts to pet him or he feels trapped and that will happen (even if it's not going to). 

Fearful dogs are fear based reactions to lots of things.  They can just lack confidence and build that up or they can be just a fearful sort of dog.  This can be varied depending on the dog. 

It can be very difficult to train and work with a shy or fearful dog at a higher level.  My dog I described above hasn't been able to work on any kind of performance stuff yet because we've spent 2 years just working on being more confident in public with people around.  The success level of the training depends on the severity of the issue with the dog, they type of training you want to do, and how much the dog trusts and bonds with you.   


 

I consider my chihuahua mix to be shy.  She is afraid of strangers touching her or picking her up.  (It's ok with me or people she knows well)  She has never, ever once hinted any kind of aggression towards people (as in, fear biting.)  She has no problem standing near strangers or accepting food from strangers, but because she gets scared when strangers try to touch her I consider her to be shy.  She is also a preemptive shrieker when she meets a strange big dog, but once she is satisfied that they don't mean her any harm then she is very playful and comfortable with them.   Otherwise she is a bouncy, happy dog who loves to explore new things and enjoys rough n'tumble romps with her buddies. 

One of my dad's dogs I consider to be spooky, he flinches and startles very easily.  He is very social with other animals and with people, he very much enjoys attention and lots of petting from people.  But he also has a little tendacy towards fearful defensiveness if anything seems odd to him (such as a flag whipping in the wind, he may raise his hackles and bark at it whilst all the other dogs couldn't care less.)  He is a mature adult dog, but I think he is emotionally immature.  He has very good obedience, very good agility, very strong ball/toy drive, excellent manners...but his self-confidence leaves something to be desired. 

Both of these dogs are unsure of children and they both will avoid children.  Not a trait that I like at all.  All of the other dogs in our household love children. 

edited to include the following:
I forgot to add that these two dogs are also the dogs who have recently gone through a period of fear from thunder-storms.  Both are nearly fully recovered now.  Again, only two dogs in our household (out of 8 dogs) who showed any kind of fear behavior.  It's fairly mild fear behavior, but still fear behavior. 

Well and let me add that sometimes, and I say only sometimes this noise/fear of noises, can be from dogs that have some sort of disability, you may not know this disability but it could be a louder than normal hearing fetish;  possibly it could be from them not seeing as well as they should; and possiblibly can be if they don't feel as well as they should.  All of the above can cause a dog to be fearful as they do not necessarily know what is happening either.  JMO.  Nan

I appreciate everyone's input, I guess my confusion over shy/spooky and nerves comes from reading articles and posts on the internet that allude, or directly say ,that those are weak nerve traits. I was trying to understand what was meant by the statement that was given on the other thread, about a spooky dog can have good nerve. Sometimes it's the tiny extra details that help someone understand more completely. Thanks again

Well I do not know who made the statement about a spooky dog can have good nerves;  however I do know that you cannot put into force everything you read on this forum.  YES, we do have some excellent trainers but it is always hard to understand what they write, sometimes to me not making much sense.  JMHO, that is why I try to give examples so people do have a comparison to read about;  somtimes helps to understand the statements fully.

I have just learned from past dogs about temperament and spooky/shy/fearful dogs are very difficult to train.  YET, they can be very sensitive however usually do not excel in any particular area as their disability gets in the way.  BOL  Nan

That was me who said a spook can have good nerve.    I have had a few dogs in that could handle pressure on the sleeve, strangers no fear of gun fire or thunder.( good nerve)  You could drop pans on the concrete etc. No issues BUT move a plant in the yard an holy mackeral the sky was falling.  They would bark and growl, circle that offending plant as if it were going to attack, day after day.  They could not recover.  That is a spook. 
Nans, it's funny I find the polar opposite.  Spooky shy fearful dogs are super easy to train.  They have to be proofed more due to their general fears but overall they seem to thrive in training.  Half of the goldens I get in for basic are peeing and bolting and frantically chewing their leads when they arrive, and they go home happy and confident. It's funny how everyones experiences are so different. Tis what makes dog training interesting!
BUT the most important thing for all of us to remember is not to get hung up on "words"  learn to assess a dog with your "EYES".  Observation is a zillion times more important than getting the "word" correct.  Its all just symantics. The best trainers dont actually say alot, frankly they barely move their bodies but the dogs understand it. 

That can be true brynjulf but we are trying to explain how to train that.  Not everyone has that gift to train dogs by body language, so where to go from here??