Reinforceing Eye Contact... - Page 1

                                 I am looking for opinions on my technique....I know that many do not care for clicker training, but I would like your input anyway....

                                 I am working on sit stays and down stays with Prince. I have been working out in the yard where there are more distractions than indoors. I notice that he is distracted looking everywhere, but at me. I am using the clicker to reinforce eye contact with me....I say, "watch me" or call his name. When he makes eye contact, I Click and treat....He is not released from the stay only treated for the eye contact.

                                What I am trying to achieve is getting him to pay attention to me, so he is less likely to be distracted and break the stay.......What do you all think about this method??????

                                                                               Thanks Ruger1

I would probably go back to the sit right in front of you. Make sure that the focus is there and reward right away for the eye contact. Even if your hand is full of food and right next to his mouth, he should be focused on you because that is what gets the reward. If he is doing this and just has a problem on the down, start right in front of him like the distance of the sit. It is easier to reward the closer you are. Slowly as he progresses and is focused, move further away. As you get further out, he will be anticipating two things, a reward or a recall. He should be pretty focused on you. You should be his source of everything. Excitment, reward, release, relief, food, play etc. You should be the coolest thing in that dog's life. Especially a GSD at his age.

Ruger1, what is your goal for your dog? Do you want to do AKC or SchH with him? Do you just want him to be a good dog?

I personally have never reinforced eye contact in a stay. It often happens naturally, a well trained dog often teaches themselves to keep an eye on their handler. Certainly for practical purposes and daily use (not talking competition here) a dog need not look, in fact, I like a dog, when they are relaxed in a long stay, to take in what's going on around them and still stay on task.

Distractions happen, you can't stop it. For example, if I'm proofing a dog with distractions, lets say, with a plastic bag. I pop the bag loudly and the dog looks over. Handler reminds the dog to stay and its perfectly ok if the dog watches the bag. They do have ears, you know. Handler then goes to the dog and lavishly rewards them for staying. At this point, the dog then looks at the handler. Second stage occurs when I pop the bag, dog only glances at the bag but then immediately to the handler ("I'm good, right?!"). Third stage is when I pop the bag and the dog stares directly at the handler in expectation of praise. Any mistakes along the way are corrected. This can happen quickly or slowly depending on the individual dogs reaction to the individual distraction presented.

Most handlers cause their dogs to break stays by frantic "watch me! watch me! watch me! Rover, watch me!" during the stay. The dog should relax in the stay, and so must you. Too many handlers are afraid to let their dog mess up. How do you expect them to learn? If a clever, independent dog figures out that their handler only gives commands when the dog is looking at them, some dogs figure out to deliberately look away from their handler if they don't feel like listening. (Again, I am talking home/street type scenarios, not competition work where the dog is expected to follow commands "in drive".)

Just some food for thought. :)

Ruger1,
You need to teach one thing at a time and break each exercise down into it's components.  If you want to teach focus, then teach focus.  Teach this initially with out any distractions.  First you teach for a second, praise and reward then extend the time.  I would vary the times as well, sometimes 10 seconds, 15, 20, 30, 5 etc.  I would have the dog sit in the basic position (on your left side) and say "watch me".  Initially reward immediately, then extend the time.  I would make the dog sit and "watch me" before you let him outside.  He doesn't go out until he focuses on you.  I would play with his toy and make him sit and watch you and reward instantly. 

I would work on his sits, down and stays in different training sessions.  Once they are all perfect you can put them together, but not before.  If his sit stay is not reliable, don't add a down that session.  I will work on my sit out of motion for a week or two and nothing else.  I only teach one exercise at time until the dog really understands it. 

If you want to work on focus outside, you need to make yourself the most exciting thing in the world to your dog.  The world must revolve around you, you are the source of fun and excitement.  Once your dog learns that you are the most exciting thing in his world he'll never take his eyes off you.  You own the toys and he must work to get them.  I can't take my dogs out to a field without them pushing me to work.  I can bring them to a field and they will not leave me, instead they will be high in drive and prod me to work and play. 


There are specific techniques to keep your dog focused on you on the sit or down stay.  But, don't worry about that now.  I would not worry about the focus on you as long as your dog is not breaking the stay.  As usual, Kczaja has given you excellent advice. 


Jim

            Slamdunc....Thanks for the post.......As long as he is 'staying put', I will not worry too much on the eye contact right now....And work one thing at a time....You make it sound so common sense...Thanks

                                                                        Ruger1

                                                                            

I have found that calling the dogs name will usually result in the dog breaking the stay. For stationary exercises we do not use the dogs name and for exercises that require movement, especially toward you then the dogs name will help bring him in.

Just my .02 FWIW

Melissa

What I would do is first remember to considering length and distance (distance from distractions) and not try to tackle both at the same time.  So, if the dog will offer 10 seconds of eye contact indoors without distraction, don't go outside and ask for 15 seconds, or even 10. 

If you are using the clicker method (which is exactly how I do and will continue to train focus by itself), I would freeshape it.  Don't say *anything* to the dog, just wait for him to make eye contact and immediately click/reward.  Don't add a command until he can do it consistently on his own (just like training any other skill).  If you add a command too soon he might start to think that "look at me" means "quick look at the owner and then look away because I get the treat anyway".  One way I like to train this is I have the dog in front of me then put a treat in each hand and hold my fists out.  The dog generally sniffs one direction, then the other, and eventually will look at my face.  In the beginning, I WANT the dog to be interested in the treat first and then look to me so he learns what it is I want (to direct attention to me).  Plus, it's somewhat of a distraction but one that is easy to start with because you have full control, the food is in your hands.

Work the stay and the focus separately, don't put them together until both are very consistent with distraction.

In Schutzhund...now...you're allowed to use the dog's name 2 times...In the RECALL from a Down Position...and When RUNNING the BLINDS...
It used to be you were never allowed to use the dog's name in any of the exercises...

~Bob~

 I am using the clicker to reinforce eye contact with me....I say, "watch me" or call his name.

Call his name when he is staying? Not fair.
When teaching a dog to GIVE eye contact, you don't nag them into to it with verbals.  When the dog gives it, mark and reward. If you have to ask or nag you are showingthe dog is past the point he should be in the training and is failing.   

I've kinda lost track... have you located a trainer you like yet? Have you decided on a method?