Would You ?..... - Page 4

R1,
         I don't think there is anything you have done wrong at all. You may have
some kind of curse. Wish I could recommend a good Witch Doctor.  I know
you have been trying very hard. Things always look the worst before they
get better, so don't give up

We have a witch doctor right here and maybe we can get him/her to say a few words to counteract this curse. Things hopefully from this point can start picking up for you.

Well I witch doctor, come say your words and help turn back this curse. Ruger1 needs a break from "the curse".

LOL

SP

 Ruger1: I have not previously registered to post to this website, but your threads on this topic have made it impossible for me to be silent. I was in your class the last two weeks, training my own GSD! You are completely and totally misrepresenting what happened and the type of environment that this amazing trainer promotes! I drive over an hour to get to this trainer because she is simply the best in our area! First, the “incident” with the Golden puppy was a beautiful training opportunity and the trainer took advantage of that. She did issue some firm corrections but spoke to the dog in a very kind, gentle and loving way each time the dog showed signs of the desired behavior. Have you really never given your dog a firm correction before? I won’t speak for the Golden’s owner, but she did not seem the least bit upset to me and I’m sure I will see her at class again Monday night!

As far as the treatment of your dog goes … there was no “shoving” or “intimidation” of Prince! The “other woman” as you refer to her (and this “other woman” is not me … but I did observe this), nudged the dog very very gently and, in fact, Prince did quite well with this. It appeared to me that your dog was starting to take the first steps in overcoming his obvious people aggression.

I post only to set the record straight. You may think that a screen name gives you anonymity, but the dog world can be a small world and when you provide such detail about your experiences, it can be very easy to identify you and even potentially the trainer in question. It is unreasonable for an admitted novice in the area of dog training to judge any trainer. I have worked with many in three different states and know a good one when I see it. I am sorry that you do not have the fortitude to see it through in this class because your dog is clearly people aggressive and some day this could lead to tragedy. I’ve seen this trainer work with dogs that are much worse than yours and I know she has worked miracles! I’m sorry you won’t be around to take advantage of that. I wish you good luck.

And just one more thing … it is highly inappropriate to video-tape a training class without the permission of the trainer and the other members of the class. I suggest you request permission before doing this with your new trainer.

I can tell you that Ruger does not hide behind a screen name like you and me as she has put her name up here at least once. So that part of your post is wrong.

I will not go into the rest as I was not present and have no first hand knowledge of what happened.

Ruger I would not let this bother you, train your dog and be happy with him, forget the rest.

SP

Ruger1-
I was also there in the class.  LRRK2 told me about this thread. I had to add my observation. 

My name is Trish Sansbury and I am in this class training my 8th HOT dog for a schutzhund title.  In case you don't know what HOT means, it's stands for Handler Owner Titled.  I have been in the sport for 25 years and I have been helped by and witnessed many trainers.  Believe me when I say that this trainer is a fabulous schutzhund trainer and is also one of the best around for dealing with inappropriately aggressive dogs. 
Yes, the trainer gave a firm correction to the Golden and the dog did vocalize.  But the dog did NOT freak out like you said.  After the correcting was done, the Golden was still the happy little dog it was before.  And the owner was completely fine with this.  As far as the slap or hit on the head or however you termed it, it was barely more than a pat. 

And I was the "other woman" that helped this trainer "intimidate" your dog, as you put it.  All we did was get close to Prince and I touched him with my leg.  And Prince actually handled it well.  Better than I would have thought, seeing as how aggressive he has acted in the past.  I really can't understand why that bothered you.  Maybe the fact that you worry so much about Prince's feelings is why you are having so much trouble with him. 

Everyone has the right to choose who they want to train with, and everyone has different opinions about what is correct training.  There is an old saying  "The only thing two dog trainers can agree on is what the third dog trainer is doing wrong."  I wish you luck finding a trainer that you are comfortable with that is effective in helping Prince overcome his issues.  Maybe there is one out there.  But one thing is for sure, I hope any trainer you go to is aware of how you ignorantly criticize other people's training in so public a venue.

One more thing.  I am not happy knowing you might have video taped me without my knowledge.  I hope you show better manners and sense in the future.

Brix, was this portion of Ruger's statement accurate, with the caveat that "crying out" was typical vocalizing in response to a strong correction [which in and of itself I don't object to, I'm not attaching abusive significance to the fact that the dog vocalized on correction]:

The trainer pulled hard on the leash enough to make the pup cry out. Every time the trainer said come, she would yank that leash and the pup would cry out .

 

to mudwick-
yes to your question

What, if you know, is the idea behind attaching a negative connotation to the recall command?

LRRK2......

          Oddly enough I appreciate your posting. The trainer did speak to the pup in a kind voice as you state, I thought it was weird actually , and it does not change her treatment of the pup...The fact that you could say it was a "beautiful training opportunity" is sick IMO....What the owner thought of it makes no difference to me one way or the other.

           As far as Prince is concerned, he did take the incident with the trainer and the other lady well in spite of the pressure that was being applied and I stand by what I already posted previously....

           There is no need for you to set the record straight nothing has been said that is untrue...I also do not hide behind a screen name as you suggest. I have made myself known to those it would concern. I have never, to the best of my knowledge posted anything using the names of any trainer. 

             As far as judging the trainer is concerned. I am not judging the trainer,. I have stated that I have no idea what the trainers purpose was in her treatment of the pup, I only know what I saw.....

            With regard to the trainer working miracles that could be true, but I do not agree with that method of training...

             And about the video taping...Again I have taped my training classes in the past with other trainers and they have had no problems with it. Actually they encouraged the taping so I could look back and learn from them. My daughter was out in the open with a full size video camera taping her dog's training class to share with the family. Attending this particular training class was something the whole family had been looking forward to...
                
            I could not imagine any trainer or member of a class being concerned about a family taping their obedience class. I see videos posted all over utub ,, I have been in classes that others were taping and it never bothered me. However, if it did bother someone I would would respect their feelings. But, I would wonder why they would care.....

             Brix88....

                     First...I have not said anything with regard to the trainers success in the sport or yours for that matter. I chose this trainer based on those things. I wanted to be there and was looking forward to being  part of the group.

                      I am not going to continue to respond to every single comment  made by you or anyone after you. I know what I saw, I described my opinion of it....I am done where that is concerned. 

                    As far as this comment ...Quote" But one thing is for sure, I hope any trainer you go to is aware of how you ignorantly criticize other people's training in so public a venue." ......This is a site to discuss training related issues. IMO that is all I was doing. Expressing my views about other training methods is also IMO reasonable. Asking advice on a dog/training issues is IMO resonable.  I will repeat again that to the best of my knowledge I have never used a name of any trainer on any thread on this site. I kept things very general in postings to be respectful to the people involved. If others want to push names out here publicly I have no control over that. But it will not come from me on any of these public threads....

                    Lastly, my response to your Quote," I am not happy knowing you might have video taped me without my knowledge. I hope you show better manners and sense in the future." Again my daughter was out in the open, I am not sure what manners or sense has to do with anything.....We were a family taping our dogs obedience class. Yikes!!!