Reinforceing Eye Contact... - Page 2

So, this is me and my mediocre dog training.  Note the degree of eye contact [the angle kind of sucks for really observing that, I'll have to do another vid].
We don't have a command for eye contact, and as a rule, I don't say her name.  I merely reinforced, as Diane has said, any eye contact she spontaneously made by herself.  At this point, it is no longer reinforced with anything other than perhaps minute verbal praise. 

The one game I did play a lot with her as a puppy was the "Look" game.
I'd hold food, or a toy, in my hand, with my arm extended straight out from my body.
Of course, at first, she'd stare straight at the toy.  As she got frustrated she'd look to my face, immediately I marked and gave her the reward that was in my hand.
Over and over.

After two or three sessions of this, even the dumbest dog grasps that it is eye contact with you that gets the reward.
Its a fun game for commercial breaks in the livingroom with dogs that are just learning to be comfortable with eye contact.

Mudwick...I have seen this video and I love it....What are you motivation her with...?...I love her eye contact..

Diane...  Your quote... If you have to ask or nag you are showing the dog is past the point he should be in the training and is failing. I am not sure what you mean by this statement? Would you explain what you mean in a different way..?  I have always just waited for the eye contact, then clicked and treated...only today, I got the bright idea to call his name...oops..not such a good idea and I will not do it again. In the obedience classes I have attended I have heard people say, "watch me" to keep the dog focused or "leave it" if something took their attention....I have not located a trainer yet, I am unsure about what I want to do, and I am going to take a break until I figure it out. In the mean time I am going to read and watch training videos....as well as take what information seems right to me from this board..........And have fun with my Prince.!!!!

                                                                    Thanks...Ruger1

I typically use food as a reinforcer when we're learning a new task [I'm using cheese in the video] and later physical and verbal praise [rough-housing type engagement is particularly rewarding for her, because of her individual temperment]. 

Typically at the end of a chain of behaviors, I will reward with a nice tug session, or toss a ball for her to chase.  I'm more apt to tug or toss a ball if corrections were given, to give her that physical release of tension.

Note that I don't give corrections for un-learned behaviors.  Just a negative reinforcement marker, and on we go.

Okay, I've got a question here. Why use a negative reinforcement marker in teaching? Doesn't the dog already know it's wrong by not getting the treat, the "good" or the click or marker word? Aren't you adding to the frustration by telling the dog it's wrong when it already knows it?
For instance, you don't need the "cold" in our childhood hot and cold games. You could be silent and just say warmer,warmer, hot, etc.....
Another example: if I'm learning to serve the tennis ball in a certain quadrant of the tennis court, I already know that I'm wrong when I can see that the ball didn't go where it was supposed to. I don't need you telling me I'm wrong as well.

I agree with the idea of seperating the stay and focus in the beginning.  The below video is pretty crappy but it is of me working my at the time almost 12 week old puppy on watching etc.  In part of it you can see my hands outstretched and my asking her to focus on my face. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dDHfixCXe4

I do try to teach my dogs to focus on me (or wherever I left their line of vision) during the stay exercises but this comes wayyy down the road in their training.  Take baby steps and keep it fun with Prince.

Okay, I've got a question here. Why use a negative reinforcement marker in teaching?
You want my honest, no bullshit reasoning?
Because I'm ADHD as hell, and I have to be saying something pretty much all the time, to the dog, to keep me focused on what the hell I'm doing during training.

I'm probably going to lose points at trial for randomly talking to the dog.
Hopefully shittons of Adderall will prevent that.

In SchH you are allowed to use the dog's name and a following command ONLY in the blind search.  If you use the name for the recall, you MAY NOT use a "hier" or "come" command, only the name.

Changer,
                You are absolutely correct....except when you build
positive and negative reinforcement you are giving or withholding
a reinforcement. Pain or dis-comfort is aversive reinforcement.

What we all need to do .....is get this straight. There are 4 reinforcement.

1.......Positive ...or give the goodie!!!

2.......Negitive........or withhold the goodie

3 ....Adversive......or discomfort... collaring or correction

4... Intermittent...hold out for a longer period time for a reward, and expecting more intensity.

    Intermittent is the most powerful reinforcer there is. And can work against you as well.

Note!!!! there is an escalation burst when correcting improper intermittent reinforcement.

Don,
          Like your comment....normal growth and development of puppies and children.
You are the greatest thing in the world until your children become teenagers.

Than suddenly they see you as loosing about 10 point off your IQ.

Eye contact can be encouraged separate from any obedience, it begins very informally.  I take the dog out, beginning in an area where there's light distractions, and just reward for any attention, eye contact, or interaction, that is the beginning of the relationship.  I would not use the dogs name for this, but just reward for any attention at all, or any behaviors offered-- without making it on cue.  Also consider using separate commands during "WORK" use German, and informal commands in the house, or none at all.  Platz means platz fast and straight, so you can't use platz in the house then reward him for doing it slowly.

Right now you are just shaping behaviors, so rewards should come quickly in the beginning.  You have your ball on a rope (allk-9.com sells the Sprenger ball on rope) or an obedience tug, and just reward the dog for each behavior broken down into steps.  In the beginning, the dog is getting the reward for every few steps he takes fuss'ing with eye contact, or making a quick turn, etc.  You have to break it down.

To address your issue of "he's looking everywhere but me" on stays, you should be making the stays shorter.  If the dog is on a stay, and is just dying to get released to get the reward, he won't take his eyes off you.  To do this type of training you have to be the most important thing in the world to the dog, you have to have the rewards he needs.  For a pet in training who is not going to compete, pushy behavior in drive and "offering" is not useful, but for a sport dog that is right attitude.  The Game videos you have should give you an idea.  You don't have to do it exactly like he does, but many people train using similar techniques.

Mainlymax, trainers must know the definitions for operant conditioning:
-Postive Reinforcement
-Negative Reinforcement
-Positive Punishment
-Negative Punishment
If you are talking about an aversive, you have to know if it's meant to increase or decrease a behavior.  E.g. A shock collar can be used to increase the behavior of coming when called, using negative reinforcement, the aversive is removed when the behavior is given.  It can also be used as P+ if nick button is used to correct.  Before you can go to "slot machine" you should start with rewarding every time.