American x West German showline crosses? - Page 8

Well, hm.
I definitely understand the concerns with all points concerning the ideas here concerning breeding. Any type of breeding outside of 100%  lines (show-show, working-working, etc) is deemed very "controversial" and brings about both negative and positive opinions from the woodwork. This doesn't make such an idea right or wrong. Outcross breedings really are very difficult to predict and duplicate, as already stated, but they can broaden the gene pool, which could maybe be used, if done the right way.

If one is going to do a WGR show/American combo breeding, then I think you should seriously consider ALL aspects of the specimens being used for such a cross and not do it haphazardly. I would think it would be wisest to use a nicely bred specimen with a SchH2 or better on one end, and an American CH who also has at least a CD. But even then the results are not 100% predictable.

I got called June 4 to pick up 2 GSDs needing rehoming. One was a 16 mos old blk/tan female who was out of V Danos Fiemerick SchH3 on her Dad's side, and Heidelberg kennel breeding from Texas in the mom (this female's mom was an actual Heidelberg dog-all males on her side of the pedigree were CHs). This female had a nice, sweet (secure) personalty; not much on drive, but active when it came to playfulness. Her color wasn't the strongest I've seen, but her conformation was alright. It barely took me 2 weeks to rehome her.

Ultimately, I dunno if I'd try such or not, because puppies produced from such could potentially be difficult to sell. I wouldn't suggest trying such unless you already have clients who knew what you were trying to do lined up for them when they were born. I will probably do some WGR show/working combo breeding because I've done seen that work with nice results, but as far as using American lines, I'm not too sure about that. I've seen some nice American GSDs. But I've had some negative past experiences with American bred GSDs, too.

Katio, I think you make a lot of sense. I'm a fan of outcrosses but I certainly see that the breeding results could be unpredictable. I think, maybe, things have become way too predictable in some ways. I say this, though, from the position of one who never has and never will breed.  It seems to me that it would take several generations to properly widen the gene pool and that it could bring a broader spectrum of consistancy with vigorous culling. And I mean no breeding of the inferior type culling.  But I would think using American lines for the outcrosss was not what I was inferring with the reference to Dallas. Even though this(and his progeny) is the only Am. line dog I've been impressesed with.

It would be helpful if  this "straubeletric" would give some insight.  I don't understand the point of joining a forum simply to revive a two year old thread and not dialog about the posting? Especially if the poster has done this very thing many times? Who knows.

As long as the dogs have proper temperament and structure...It doesnt matter if they were bred on Mars.

The first problem is that many do not understand what is proper temperament or structure...and its not that hard to figure out.  Go to a schutzhund trial and see what it takes to do the bite work, tracking and obedience.  Does your dog have the drive to track?  Does the dog have what it takes to stand up to a helper and a challenge?.  Does you dog have the structure to do the physical work of the jumps in obedience and physical strains of bite work?  The other option would be to go to a German herding trial and see if the dog can do that type of work.  If your dog cant do either it doesnt mean it is a "bad" dog....just DONT breed it.

The second problem is that it would be almost as easy to find a dog on Mars that will be able to do the work as it would be to find one in the American show or pet lines.

Hey, there's a Straub Electric in Ohio. The OP for this thread two years ago is from Ohio.  Small world.

I have enjoyed this thread.Take no offense anyone.There are very many varieties of a shepherd dog whether approved of or not.Yes there once was a shiloh shepherd once given a name by acceptance.The dutch shepherd was not allowed out for quite some time...In ref to German shepherds..Its like a frenzy.West German /East german.In my re-call.No west or east german male would be allowed to come to the USA unless he was a throwaway titled or not.In ref to the bitches..very few were allowed to be released at all titled or not.Now that there is free trade so to speak.The GSD is dying.Anyone can talk about showing..titling..SchH etc etc clubs ..All good!!But what is the point for the breed?Anyone that does has to consider that there are people that can't.Does that make their dogs less??Just pets.Dallas is nice because he an edge to get there.Glad for him.Jimmie Moses had the backing...so what does this cause??Everyone wants Dallas on the pedigree.. visa versa in german pedigree's ect.This all boils down to marketabilty.Dutss, i am not centering you out by any means.But something to consider beyond what you said is this in ref to not breeding....which I do rarely.I do agree to a point.How many litters do you produce per year and where do they go.Actually I am asking everyone.There is nothing wrong with a cross if the interest is in saving the breed.What happened with the St.Bernard..The Rottweiler..The doberman?Trailrider..There really isnt an American shepherd.There hasnt been restrictive rules on breeding.Thanks to the AKC.Anyone that could register a litter by having "Papers" on the male and female bred to their hearts content...no matter what breed.If you are to breed take your time.FIRST temperment and structure.Does anyone have any aid for the blind dogs in their medals?Not one litter anywhere is universal.

"Trailrider..There really isnt an American shepherd."

Rainhaus ..Perhaps I should have said American Lines.

The sire of my Danka is all "American Lines".. I am not disapointed with her at all. Not the best picture haha. Take a look. Valdega's Danka v Rainhaus

Hi Rainhaus

I do not breed and do not plan on breeding.  I dont think that outcrossing with the american show lines will do anything to "save the breed".....but will only help with its decline.

I agree that $$ is at the root of the problem.  You cant really regulate the breeding....just like oil speculators who drive up the price of fuel to make $$......greed.

I do know some American Line breeders who really think they are doing a good thing.  After hours of discussin they do not realize that they are creating big problems.  They keep their dogs in kennels...never work them beyond running around the ring and truly believe they understand what a GSD is.

You never know what your dog is unless you work it and yes....put a little pressure on it.

Once again, I dont breed.  I think there are enough pups who dont make it for work out of working lines to be placed as pets.  No need to breed in a negative direction.

On a last note...its not just the american line breeders creating havoc the german show lines as well as the working lines are breeding for extremes.  I have seen german show lines pups sell for over $2500...oh my...these breeders must have a great sales pitch....or buyers who dont have a clure!

We actually have more than a dozen different people in Ohio, so it ain't that small a world.

As the originator of this thread, I would like to add that upon reading this thread back when it was started and reading other threads since then concerning this subject.  I did not do any cross matings.  I only did a German Showline to German Showline mating.  In case anyone wants to know.  I had at one point also asked for thoughts on crossing German Showlines with German Working lines and have not done a breeding like that either.  I wonder if that thread will suddenly surface again?

However, I have kept my options open and own at least one of all three (I currently have 9 dogs), so the possibility still exists that I might do one or both "crosses" in the future.  Breeding GSD's has just not been something important to me lately.  I bred one litter and kept one pup.  Sold the rest, except for one male I donated to another on this forum who had posted about his brothers older GSD dying and he wanted to get his brother a surprise replacement but wanted to make payments, and I just gave him the dog because the guy visited me and I felt he was sincere and the dog would have a good home and it was never about the money with me anyway.  I just wanted to breed my own pup.  The guy who I donated the dog too, had a screen name something like HarleyGlide or whatever.  I do not remember.  I did contact his (and his brothers Vet) via phone, prior to donating the dog, to verify about the death of the brothers dog, and its prior care.  I have not heard from him in quit a while and if you are reading this, please drop me a line and let me know how the boy is doing.  I lost the phone number.

I have been concentrating on my racing pigeons lately and am avoding dog breeding for the time being, but certainly will in the next year or two, before my dogs get too old.

Thanks for all the participation in this thread and I was a little surprised to see it revived.  If I wanted to revive it myself, I would have just bumped it with a little of the above info.  I am not the straubWhatever person who posted above.  For you paranoid people.  I am just me.  Hard to accept that there are those of us out here that are not weird, I know.  But there are a few.  Especially in Ohio.

Peace and Happy Independence Day to all (well, most all).  My wife is working today and tomorrow so we have to wait until Sunday to have our family get together.  Raining here today anyway.

<Sigh> Sadly the truth is, I don't think it would much matter what bloodlines a person has or likes, or how much a dog has accomplished in titles or show ratings, or how much the dog cost.... there will always be "someone" that will not like it and think it is not breed worthy.... I suppose because people are all different, in their mind they interpret the breed standard differently. Doesn't make anyone right or wrong IMO..... I personally have found good and bad in them all.