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by Ceph on 23 February 2009 - 12:02
~Care
by Baldursmom on 23 February 2009 - 13:02
That's a quote from von Stephanitz, from one of the chapters on training. I'm pretty sure the answer isn't, "Apply electrical stimulation to vulnerable parts of the dog's body".
LOVE this one Hexe!
As stated above, a lot depends on how you are using the TOOL. . Floyd once said in a semiar, they are all tools, use your God given tools first, your brain and your hands. I am a firm beleiver in this.
I have used one on Baldur, he has a bad habit of chasing lawn equipment, weed wackers, lawn mowers ect. In my mind, a shock to stop this was perferable to a lacerated tongue or worse. The e-colar companies advertise it as a normal training tool for OB, I have seen that lady on Me or the Dog through them away.
Problem I see was he is very colar wise. Without the colar at least on, he still goes after the equipment. Thereforem it did not train him, only detered him. Wondering how others are?
There is a lot of bad press out there too. There was a trainer here in Chicago procescuted for abuse, and I think discussed on this board, who was using three, one on the neck, flank and jewels. I don't remember the details, but sounded like overkill to me.
by Mystere on 23 February 2009 - 14:02
by KatK9 on 23 February 2009 - 14:02
That has nothing to do with training, sharpend prongs etc. That is abuse! Was and still is.
Don't be fooled, there are still peolple and trainer out there that wet the dog, and have no clue about how to use an ecollar, and even worse, give that tool into hands- knowingly- that the doghandler isn't mentally capable of using it correctly!
You may be lucky to see that the correct use is applied, but I see a heck of a lot dogs beeing abused by it. And trainers that don't care, who they give a tool like this- and these peple have the idea to do what the big ones do, if they can do it or not- if it is the right way or not- becuase it is a promised fast resolution thing!
Use it when you have to, but make it ur last resort!
by Mystere on 23 February 2009 - 14:02
by getreal on 23 February 2009 - 14:02
What did the asshole that wet the dog hope to achieve? It will not vary the stimulation in any way, shape form or fashion. That is a misconception. Don't believe me, call Tri Tronics. You change your contacts to match the dog's coat. If anything, not getting proper contact and wetting a dog to get the shock results in a lower stimulus. Electricity always takes the shortest path, and that would include traveling across wet hair, instead of making contact with the skin, resulting in no or low stimulation.
And for anyone that thinks that ecollars are a fast resolution, you are in a dream. Like I said before, people that have no or inadequate experience with ecollars trying to use them.
Baldursmom, whoever set the dog up and worked him with the ecollar did not know what they were doing, or else he would have thought that it was a consequence coming directly from you. If he is collar wise, it can be corrected, will just take a little time. If you are the one that done it, you wouldn't be the first, and if not, I would not let whoever did, touch the dog again. If you did it yourself, pm me and I will be glad to help you out with straightening the problem. There is a lot more to using an ecollar than slapping it on the dog and shocking the shit out of them.
Best wishes,
Jerry
by sueincc on 23 February 2009 - 14:02
My point, KatK9, was people who are too heavy handed when using the ecollar now were too heavy handed with whatever tools and methods were at their disposal prior to the availability of the modern ecollar.
The modern ecollar when used correctly is too good of a tool to reserve only for last resort, no matter where placed on the dog, BUT we are moving away from the discussion at hand. This thread is not about debating when to use the ecollar, rather where to place the ecollar.
Of course trainers care, even if they are hard hearted and don't give a shit about the dog, they care about results. Trainers who misuse the collar fuck up dogs and end up with poor results come trial day. That effects their bottom line.
There are those who consider a leash pop abusive, everything is a matter of degree and finesse. Perhaps if those of you who think attaching an ecollar with a flank strap is some kind of torture actually saw the reaction of the dogs to the level of the stimulus used, you would understand what we are saying. It's not about pumping up the juice to the point where the dog is frightened or even hurt, it's using the level that affords the lowest stimulation that will result in a reaction from the dog.
by Held on 23 February 2009 - 15:02
by Jenni78 on 23 February 2009 - 16:02
This was not a skilled trainer perfecting a routine...this was some sick fuck enjoying torturing a dog in front of a crowd. Why all the laughter? Because they're SICK INDIVIDUALS. The dog was so scared, he wouldn't move. He refused every command, and sat in one place and shook. And they all laughed, and passed around the remotes so everyone could see how high they were turned up. Very skilled training, indeed.
I never said that "2 e collars was cruel." THIS INSTANCE was absolutely cruel. Stop the over-generalizing!
by Mystere on 23 February 2009 - 18:02
Mystere,
What did the asshole that wet the dog hope to achieve? It will not vary the stimulation in any way, shape form or fashion. That is a misconception. Don't believe me, call Tri Tronics. You change your contacts to match the dog's coat. If anything, not getting proper contact and wetting a dog to get the shock results in a lower stimulus. Electricity always takes the shortest path, and that would include traveling across wet hair, instead of making contact with the skin, resulting in no or low stimulation.
And for anyone that thinks that ecollars are a fast resolution, you are in a dream. Like I said before, people that have no or inadequate experience with ecollars trying to use them.
Frankly, I never knew what the bastard was trying to achieve with ANYTHING he did. The same bastard's version of a a 'forced retrieve" ended up with a big,male rottweiler arresting!! As I have mentioned elsewhere, Mal and gsd breeders in the area would not sell a puppy to anyone who trained with in his club. Period.
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