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by HighDesertGSD on 05 March 2009 - 23:03
I told buyers of my Am Showline pups that they are not SchH material and still I find buyer just based on the looks, titles, OFA records of dogs in the pedigree, plus many have CD titles and some do SAR work. Good enough for most dog owners who want a GSD.
May be 5% of GSD owners should really have a high-drive GSD; may be another 25% think they should.
I say if you are among the 5%, good for you. I respect your choice, please respect others.
May be 5% of GSD owners should really have a high-drive GSD; may be another 25% think they should.
I say if you are among the 5%, good for you. I respect your choice, please respect others.
by Mystere on 06 March 2009 - 00:03
Sue,
The dog turns out to be linebred on a German dog (and there are skads of Germans behind him otherwise) and even though heavily line-bred on Lance of Fran-Jo (check it out, I have never seen a line-breeding like that-5, 5 3-5, 5--what the hell is that??). Anyway, Ol" Lance turns out to be 4-5,5 on yet another German dog.
HighDesertGSD is correct, IMO, we need to all just accept the dogs for what they are and be happy with our preference, leaving others to their own.
Actually, that is what I normally do, until "the others" start their WL/German/schutzhund-bashing. Then, we end up in exercises like this. Nice, though, now we have the links and the best efforts still come up with only .000000000000032 of American lines doing the work to title.
The dog turns out to be linebred on a German dog (and there are skads of Germans behind him otherwise) and even though heavily line-bred on Lance of Fran-Jo (check it out, I have never seen a line-breeding like that-5, 5 3-5, 5--what the hell is that??). Anyway, Ol" Lance turns out to be 4-5,5 on yet another German dog.
HighDesertGSD is correct, IMO, we need to all just accept the dogs for what they are and be happy with our preference, leaving others to their own.
Actually, that is what I normally do, until "the others" start their WL/German/schutzhund-bashing. Then, we end up in exercises like this. Nice, though, now we have the links and the best efforts still come up with only .000000000000032 of American lines doing the work to title.
by jletcher18 on 06 March 2009 - 00:03
wow Mystere, i didnt think anyone would actually do the math. thanks.
so in conclusion,,,,,,,
I wont bash your dog and what you do with it, as long as you dont harp on me about mine and what i do with them.
now all we have to do is get the ring sport folk and the schutzhund folk to agree they are both sports and one is not better than the other.
group hug,
john
so in conclusion,,,,,,,
I wont bash your dog and what you do with it, as long as you dont harp on me about mine and what i do with them.
now all we have to do is get the ring sport folk and the schutzhund folk to agree they are both sports and one is not better than the other.
group hug,
john
by 4pack on 06 March 2009 - 01:03
Hell no 1's not better than the other, they both suck. PSA is #1! LOL
by Mystere on 06 March 2009 - 01:03
Actually, I have "stolen" from the Ring folks for years. I love going to Ring trials, as some of the stuff they do impresses the hell out of me. In this area, PNW, there used to be lots of Ring activity and it was pretty predictable, too--certain clubs always had their trials at the same time each year and there were several clubs. Now, there are only 3, and only one has a trial regularly.
I always said I wanted to get a brevet on my schutzhund dog, when the dog was retired from schutzhund. Never have tried for it, though.
There are no PSA clubs or groups in the PNW, as far as I know. So, I have never seen one of their trials, or watched any training.
I always said I wanted to get a brevet on my schutzhund dog, when the dog was retired from schutzhund. Never have tried for it, though.
There are no PSA clubs or groups in the PNW, as far as I know. So, I have never seen one of their trials, or watched any training.
by jletcher18 on 06 March 2009 - 02:03
PSA, , isnt that the bastard step-child of the two? lol
john
john
by windwalker18 on 06 March 2009 - 08:03
The fact is that most GSD's registered and shown in breed don't even have obedience titles, as it's not required to become titled in breed conformation like it is in Germany. A press to require OFA hips for Select dogs caused a huge uproar, as did the suggestion that Select dogs have at least a CD.... Hell, my Siamese cat could get a CD!! Until it's reqired to get the big titles folks are lazy and won't bother even if they dog has the temperment/conformation do do will at some kind of work. Personally I think it'd be a fantastic reqirement that all select dogs/bitches have OFA Hips/elbows AND at least a CD or CGC. More would be better... but even that small step would be an improvement. No, the GSDCA can't require it for a Championship, but they can require it for the National standings.
by Rik on 06 March 2009 - 13:03
I bred and showed Am. show lines for 25 years. Have finished champions in U.S. and Canada. Bred to many of the top Select Champions, including a couple of Grand Victors. The Am. show line cannot be salvaged as a functional GSD. Too many generations of ignoring everything except side gait.
If your idea of a GSD is a Golden Retriever (don't expect many of them to retrieve) with pointy ears and health problems you never imagined, then the Am. GSD is the dog for you.
If someone has the occasional exception, good for you, but the breed as a whole is useless for anything other than running in circles. (for a short period of time)
Rik.
If your idea of a GSD is a Golden Retriever (don't expect many of them to retrieve) with pointy ears and health problems you never imagined, then the Am. GSD is the dog for you.
If someone has the occasional exception, good for you, but the breed as a whole is useless for anything other than running in circles. (for a short period of time)
Rik.
by Mystere on 06 March 2009 - 14:03
Rik,
I am one who loves the breed and started, as did many, with Am lines. The health and temperament issues of the last one virtually drove me to German lines. Dr. Kruger, a vet and breeder of 100 AKC champion gsds PUBLICLY advised against people buying gsds, stating that the breed was ruined. Of course, he was referring to the Ambreds (and ignoring his contribution to ruination?)
by HighDesertGSD on 06 March 2009 - 17:03
"A press to require OFA hips for Select dogs caused a huge uproar, as did the suggestion that Select dogs have at least a CD...."
A requirement is good but there is also a thing called expectation of the buyers and just a circle of friends. The momentum for OFA IS already a reality for top Am Showline. Many breeders do prelim of potential champions so that efforts are not wasted.
It doesn't take much effort to find Am Showline pups with both parents and at least half of the grandparents OFA H&E. Some grandparents may be just H not H&E. Definitely heading toward the right direction.
Not a brag, just a statement that a wonderfully beautiful line with mellower temperament is heading toward the right direction in this aspect.
A requirement is good but there is also a thing called expectation of the buyers and just a circle of friends. The momentum for OFA IS already a reality for top Am Showline. Many breeders do prelim of potential champions so that efforts are not wasted.
It doesn't take much effort to find Am Showline pups with both parents and at least half of the grandparents OFA H&E. Some grandparents may be just H not H&E. Definitely heading toward the right direction.
Not a brag, just a statement that a wonderfully beautiful line with mellower temperament is heading toward the right direction in this aspect.
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