Table training for Sch - Page 1

I am would like to have a table built for my club.  As I was checking the web for plans I came across plenty of articles that made me a little nervous about it but I read an old blog from this site in which it seemed most people agreed that if used correctly by experienced trainers it can be a useful tool. While I am fairly new at this I am fortunate to work with an excellent helper and trainer so I guess I am going ahead with the project.  If anyone has plans or knows where I could find them I would sure appreciate the info.

Thanks,
mb1

I don't get all the hoopla around tables.  I've seen them used terribly, i've seen them used well.  I don't use them myself.  I have never seen a dog trained on a table be able to do something that other dogs couldn't do trained on the ground or anywhere else.    about the only thing I think a table is good for is a helper that doesn't want to put forth all the effort of training a dog on the ground.

  I do not think table training for Schutzhund is necessary.

   Table training is for problem solving with dogs that are hard handling or agressive that need to be up and in a level of training to correct them or to bring forth several different major personality bitework problems..

  I do not or have not ever seen it  used for schutzhund except once many years ago ,,,but any table used for the DUMBELL training with a FORCE TRAIN process.

 YOu can use any table for FORCE training in the dumbell. or for OUTING ...do not have to build a table for that..

 Tables built for a purpose have to be exact with proper exact measurement and professionally sound or you have major problem .

  YOu may want to do some more research before  you spend time and money.

   Depending on where you are, Nate Harves uses Table training.  Grimmdog is his log in name here on pdb so you may pm him and ask his help.

YR

 I would suggest your club sending a member helper to a Gene Englend Seminar and see what you need from him. A table is just another training tool some need it some don,t and all training aids can be abused. Know what you need and use it propelry.   

I hate to get sucked into this topic........but I will.

If you dont know how to train utilizing tables, please seek out Gene England. There are a few that train that are very good with this system but more than likely because of the lack of understanding and persona that ignorant people cause of the tables they are not going to let you in to "learn how to table train"  Please do not find a picture of a table online, build it, agitate the dog on it and call it table training.  Please do not seek out some hack that says he's a table training guru that publishes articles or posts a ton of videos about such training.  It's processes like that that make people not understand those of us that can properly and successfully base an entire training system around the 3 different tables.   

Table training is not only for Force training, problem aggressive dogs, weak dogs.   It has and is implemented in schutzhund to a high degree.  It is not for lazy helpers. 

Table training is for building powerful confident dogs.  It is for building the foundation work in young dogs.  It it for training the guard, the articles in tracking, the dumbell, the out, the sit, down, platz, stand.  It is for building a powerful, confident, controlled dog.  It is also for building confidence in a weak dog. It is for building a balanced Schutzhund dog that would have no problem transitioning to the streets.

The proper table should LIMIT options of the dog but not limit the dog from choosing and going through its options in the bite work.  Proper utilization does not involve tying a dog to a table and pressuring it into defensive hectic aggression.  For instance, think of the square table as a boxing ring, the helper the coach and the dog the young student.   If I am the coach I have to first build a relationship of trust.  The dog must know that I will not violate this trust and will not be unfair to him.  I should be able to touch him, pat him, touch him with the stick, control his head and handle his paws.  While doing this I will NEVER break this trust.   now I will build on small victories.  The helper must be an actor and PERCEPTION IS EVERYTHING.  Through suspicion I will agitate the dog (not crazy, whip cracking, or causing unfair pain to the dog).  More than likely he will not come out crazy and powerful at first but through small reactions to me being suspicious or threatening such as coming forward, a growl, a bark he begins to have small victories.  These small victories begin the building of a stronger dog as he begins to work through stronger pressure.  If the dog choses not to react to me appropriately and turn away or try to leave the table simply does not allow him to.  I can mark the correct behavior by being ran off or even by marking the behavior and becoming non threatening and letting the dog know he was correct in his reactions.  We equate this with a boxing coach telling his student he layed a good hit during a sparing session.

Eventually the dog will work through all levels of threat.....Suspicion, Threat, Danger and Pain.  Through confidentally working through all levels and through small victories he will become a very powerful dog.       This is a very very basic idea of some of the work that can be done.  By no means could anyone take this explanation and properly implement into a table training program.  

Table training is not the only way to build a good dog.  It is how some of us choose to train a dog and have success with.   It is, however the most mis-understood training.   

As stated before, please do not try to do this without a very clear understanding of the table by working with Gene or someone that has worked directly under him and has not taken his ideas and program and butchered it.  you will find many different types of tables online that are incorrect.  A table should not be an elevated back tie, there is a reason for them being built to certain specifications.  Good Luck

  Amen to UGLYK9:

     YR

TY UglyK9 for taking the time. Excellent post!

Nice post uglyk9!

Thanks guys:-) 

["Proper utilization does not involve tying a dog to a table and pressuring it into defensive hectic aggression. "]


pjp