Leaking Drive - Page 1

Would you breed a dog or to a dog that "leaks drive" when doing the bitework phase in IPO or any of the ringsports? Am I wrong in considering this a major nerve issue that should be culled from the breed no matter how well the dog performs on the field? Don't these dogs usually present other nerve issues?

Thanks for your opininons,

 

I wouldn't do it, but trying to convince many others that this is a problem is an uphill battle when it's points, points, points, and who gives a shit if you can live with the dog or if the dog is even aware of its surroundings... 

Now, let me say that there are dogs who are artificially (not really the perfect word, but...) amped up and it's more of a training/environmental issue than it is an inborn issue with the dog itself.  There are dogs who "leak" that aren't nervebags...but too amped up and cannot settle. You crate a dog, any dog, let alone a high drive, intelligent dog, 24/7, and you can make any dog look a bit...........well.......you know. 

To say much more, I'd want to hear your definition of "leaking drive." We may not be talking about the same thing. 

I think they should not be used for breeding...personally, I don't like the screamers...they don't represent the GSD in character. I always say the GSD has been "bred out of them". The nerve issues in other areas, however, may be glossed over because of extremely high prey drive so will not be so evident.

Koach, you may try to take the quotation marks out of the topic..the only way to post a reply is to type in the topic again.

Yes, it's a vicious cycle, almost. Breeding more prey into them to cover more flaws makes them that much nuttier and they leak even more, then we add more prey to try to cover some of the more apparent issues as the dogs acts nuttier and so on and so forth. Before anyone accuses me of thinking or saying extreme prey drive causes nerve issues, let me clarify that I think it masks issues and therefore dogs who shouldn't be bred are, and when you put that much drive into a dog that doesn't have the genetic mental make up to handle it, well, it's gotta go somewhere. 

I've have one who screams a little when SUPER excited, ie, waiting to be released for a bite, but it's controllable based on your actions prior to working him. Amp him up, he'll scream a little (not bad). Act normal, he's ok. He's linebred on the T litter von der Bosen Nachbarschaft, btw...surprise, surprise. I will say that the occasional screaming is really the only negative trait as far as representing the GSD and he's a wonderful dog in all other aspects of temperament- very strong character, clear-headed, good discernment, etc. If he were ever bred (I sold him as a pet...well, sort of a pet, LOL) I'd certainly NOT want him bred back to similar lines. 

if it's actually genetic, you sure want it out. the majority of 'leakers' i've seen, both in prey and defense, have been over-loaded from an early age onward and generally rushed into work with no base concept of control (obedience) and pretty much the indiscriminate offering of bites further reinforcing that behavior.  i'd wager that the majority of leaking behavior observed in ipo and ring is entirely attributable to poor development of the dog but undoubtedly amplified by (high) drive levels. 

Good description, bebo. That's what I was trying to say with regard to environment/training/handling.

very nice, bebo.  one has to be careful to determine if it actually is genetic or the product of
faulty training.  :)   pjp

Leaking drive is something that has irritated me a bit since I first saw it in person. I don't see how that can be desired or acceptable anywhere. I mean to a point it is tolerable, if it is an every now and then deal... but I know a few dogs where it is CONSTANT screaming (most are out of the same, very very popular sire among the sport world, hmmm). One dog in particular sounds like shes being strangled as soon as she comes out of her crate.

But I suppose I like a dog that will be a good deterrent... there is something about that dead quiet stare that I find way more intimidating and powerful, then a dog bouncing around screaming bloody murder...

One thing though, is the teeth-clacking considered leaking drive? IMO, that is not as bad as the screaming...

Good post Bebo, every time I see over the top drive these days, especially leaking and screaming, I tell newbies to look up the pedigree and I guarantee them that certain dogs/lines will be there more than once....I'm almost never wrong. But I also wholeheartedly agree with training aspect and especially the aspect of moving too fast and too early. 
I have an eighteen month old dog that did not get worked in bitework until sixteen months. No tugs, no biscuits , no flirtpoles, no sleeves. Can you imagine that, heaven forbid!    He's now had two months of bitework, barks are deep and loud, bites are full and hard, no shrieks or overloading, now a lot of this is because the dog is balanced in drives and not prey monster.....but I think that early and faulty training can compound dogs genetic inability to handle frustration/stress.