Leaking Drive - Page 5

I laughed at that, too, Joan. 

I'm sure this will get a dislike, just like my "double post" post. LMAO...that wouldn't be personal, maybe, and not related to what I said in that post, would it? 

I have to say here that I appreciate the time people like ziegenfarm and VKGSDs and Blackthorn (and everyone else, just pointing out the 3 long posts in this thread) put forth in explaining minute idiosyncrasies in dogs they've raised or owned. It really does help put puzzle pieces together for those of us who are learning what different lines bring in certain combinations. 

It's no problem, really.  I no longer own the dog and I am not sure if the current owner is considering breeding, so I won't get into whether or not one should breed a screamer (though I have to agree with Slamdunc, no dog is perfect and it depends on the whole picture). He was a very nice dog, very easy and fun to train, very successful in several venues and at a young age (he is 3 and qualified for a national with his first IPO3 attempt). I got him to be an IPO sport dog and his new owner bought him from me to be an IPO sport dog and he does that very, very well. My particular dog just let out a shriek with the retrieve command.  The constant leaking I've seen/heard from some, I would not have put up with!  He did it from the very first time he tried doing a full retrieve and based on his latest trial footage, still does it.  It was something I worked on when I owned him, but was a minor thing for me since he was otherwise quiet during obedience (I actually had to focus more on getting him to WAIT in basic position when the dumbbell was tossed, and I never did a "play" type retrieve so I still don't understand the attraction for the dumbbell).  If it matters, he's always had a more higher pitched bark.  When he does vocalize it sounds more similar to "leaky" dogs whereas my other male, he just barks.  Since you've bred to the sire, maybe the info is valuable.  If not, just more anecdotes.  I try to be transparent about my dogs and their training and would hope people aren't making assumptions about the dog, the training, or the breeding without the full context.  I'm pretty proud of the dog and happy to have been a large part of his training for his first 2 years and see him continue on towards success.

i think you have to delineate between drive states when you make displacement behavior assessments and subsequent breeding/buying/training decisions. personally, i think of leaking as a dog's displacement behavior as the result of not being able to cope with the presented stressors. in my mind, uncontained exuberance/excitement in a high(er) drive dog is not particularly worrisome especially when it's observed in prey and/or pack drive states for obedience exercises. i'd certainly take measures to cap it but a yelp here and there because the dog is stoked and going 40 mph doesn't worry me one bit. hence, i wouldn't shy away from buying said dog's offspring given i like the package to begin with and the breeder is a trusted source.  once you get into displacement behavior during bite work, especially in defensive guarding and fighting, i'd pass on the ensuing offspring regardless of how much i trust the breeder as the likelihood of a 'breeder recall' within the first six to eight months is just too high. my disclaimer being that (i think) the observed displacement behavior is not (wo)man-made.

bebo,
Excellent point, and I agree.  I can even deal with "screaming" in bite work; given the right situation.  A dog that screams to chase a decoy, when being pumped up and held back before being sent is fine.  We actually do a lot of work to "turn on" the dogs and to "turn off" in bite work.  The dogs learn to contain themselves and it actually builds drive and power.