Breeder contract vs ethics? - Page 1

I have a question on breeder ethics. We returned a pup because he did not posses the traits we had been looking for. A bad match for us which was apparent after a few days. In original emails the breeder never said the pup didnt fit everything that had been outlined and in follow up emails it became clear that the breeder didnt understand what we we looking for. The breeder never asked us a single question about anything which I should have seen as a "red flag" but did not. Anywho, breeder promised a refund after selling some pups, they are now sold and breeder is balking at a refund saying they dont even have to give it to us since the pup wasnt returned for health reasons. Contractually that is true. Breeder is supposedly reputable, but I am seeing this as a very money motivated transaction. Is this behavior considered good breeder ethics? It seems like a lot of other "reputable" breeders are backing this one's behavior up, so I am not sure if this is typical? Should I take this as an expensive lesson on choosing a breeder?

Scubalook, you identified it as a money-motivated transaction, but it is one that is supported by a contract. From what I understand of your post, so far the breeder is upholding his side of the (original) contract. But, you are dissatified with the puppy; I think that is apparent. Rather than ask for your money back, would you consider a trade for another puppy from another litter? Realizing of course that the breeder may need more money to do this, as he needs to care for, and sell the puppy that you would return. I commend you for entering into a contract with the breeder, but I think perhaps both of you misunderstood the other's desires as to what this puppy should be. I am disappointed with the breeder if he stated that he would return your money and then reneged on this promise. A verbal agreement is a legal agreement-it is just hard to produce the wind on that those words were spoken and hopefully you have this in the form of e-mails. But it is hard for me to take any sides here, as I have sold puppies that were "exactly" what the owner wanted and then I get a call a few weeks later that the puppy is a fuzzy terrorist as far as the owners are concerned. Essentially in that case they misrepresented their intentions with the puppy and purchased one of the wrong type of temperament. At that end I have to step in and help them with the puppy, and things have fortunately turned out well for the the two (2) times this happened. And yes, these were GSD people. I reiterate some words of a subject that I have mentioned many times-the value of establishing a personal relationship with the breeder of your puppy. This is absolutely no guarantee that things will be perfect, but the two of you should understand each other's intents better, and a problem arises perhaps it will be wasy to work through. In the end, try to work with this breeder to obtain the puppy that you want. You did not say what the problem(s) is(are), but I suspect it is a temperament and/or drive issue. Good Luck to both of you, Bob-O

I am not looking for anyone to take sides, I actually prefer that this doesnt turn out this way. This is only my second breeder puppy and our first GSD so I am mostly trying to figure out if this is "normal" or considered ethical. If it is that is fine, just not what I expected. Another puppy was offered but at this point I wouldnt trust the breeder to pick it out for us, we decided to lean towards a breeder who will give us the 3rd degree to make sure everything is understood.

Scubaklook, I think that the "3rd degree" is exactly what you need to experience with the next breeder. I always thought I was a skilled practicioner of this, and yet I have been proven wrong twice. In both situations I would have gladly traded a puppy with lower drives and more of a "pet" temperament, but had none to trade at that time so I had to get involved to help the owners deal with these high-drive (to them, anyway) puppies. I wanted the relationship to succeed. As far as "normal" or "ethical", I think you will find many opinions of both words. In the end, find someone that you feel good about doing business with, and work on building that personal relationship with that person. Perhaps another puppy offered by the breeder is the way to go, and consider using someone other than the breeder to help you select this puppy; such as someone who has an excellent knowledge of the GSD and can spot issues in the youngsters. This is hard to do in some areas-I know. Again, good luck, Bob-O

Contracturally, the breeder is bound only to fulfill the terms of the original written contract. Anything above and beyond that - from a legal perspective - is at the breeder's discretion. If the breeder promises to send a refund, then does not, this is poor ethics IMO, but spoken word alone does not constitute a legal contract and so you cannot legally hold the breeder to his/her word. It is in the breeder's best interests to have satisfied customers, but with something as complex as the fit between dog and owner, this is practically impossible to guarantee. If I were a breeder, I would not feel comfortable given a guarantee of a perfect fit because I lose control over the puppy once it leaves my possession. Many people, unfortunately, only think they know what they want when they get a dog, or have misguided expectations. I don't think you can legally pursue this breeder to demand a refund, and if you don't trust the breeder anymore then don't bother getting a new pup because you have set yourself up to be disappointed. Yvette

"A bad match for us which was apparent after a few days" Oeps... for me it always takes a longer time. After a few days the pupp^y can not change... what do you expect froma breeder...??? Think in front before you buy...!!!!

We did know what we wanted and on further contact with the breeder they were using stable to mean how soundly their dogs sleep? eek. I wish I had that conversation before getting the pup. I know I made a huge mistake in seleting this breeder for us, but hidsight is always 20/20. I'll take it as a learning experience and will stop crossing my fingers about a refund. Thanks for other view points.

Scubaklook, I'm curious as to what kind of puppy you were looking for and what exactly did the pup do in the first 2 days that made you so certain you had purchased the wrong one?

IMO, if you are not happy with the puppy that was sent to you, the breeder should take the puppy back and either replace it, or if a litter is not available, refund your money. Contract or no contract. If someone is not happy with the dog supplied to them, then what good is that going to be for the dog?

I would not give you a refund!! You take a pup for a few days and then want your money back!!!??? Sorry.. But after years of experience I would have figured out not to sell you a dog before the transaction went through anyway!!!! Good lord, go get a poodle... :-) DJ